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CANCELLED Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

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TYPHOON3
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by TYPHOON3 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:50 pm

100arw wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:18 pm
The event would raise even more cash, if those who just watched from local campsites or near the runway threshold bought tickets :-)
P.
The Saturday show sells out most years anyway. Watching from the runway threshold has been fenced off for a few years now. The only campsite worth watching from is Totterdown. The rest are either Southside or too far away from the display line.

Headance99
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Headance99 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:58 pm

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Excellent to get a financial perspective.

I'm glad it's not just me which is a bit puzzled by the heavyweight board ?

I'm sure it was never like this when the monies went direct to The RAF Benevolent Fund who incidentally provide not 1 but a whopping 37 pages of financial analysis and only have 4 full time directors.

What I don't quite understand is the governance by the trustees although there are as many trustees as their are directors. I assume the trustees work for free and put the interests of the RAFCE at the forefront of their minds, they should be overseeing how funds are spent especially at this critical moment.

I do wish there was more visibility on how all this money is spent.
Assume 40 staff are on average £25k that's only £1m.

I'm being generous but if you double this and add £1m for say director salaries that's £2m.

What on earth are they spending the other £8m on, Insurance £1m maybe, cover for police etc £1m, crew accommodation £1m, but after that ?????

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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by page_verify » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:39 pm

Headance99 wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:58 pm

I do wish there was more visibility on how all this money is spent.
Assume 40 staff are on average £25k that's only £1m.

Some calculations from the latest annual report.

It would appear there's 50 staff in total: 5 directors, 37 employees, and 8 temporary staff.

The total salary cost for all 50 was £1,982,803 and total social security cost for all 50 was £202,850, a total of £2,185,653.
The total salary and social security cost for the 5 directors was £671,681.

The highest paid director earned £160,854 so when accounting for social security costs this implies the remaining 4 directors each earned an average of £110,954.
Additionally, this implies that each of the 45 employees and temporary staff each earned an average of £36,826.

You'll have to excuse a few social security rounding errors and remember I'm not an accountant so my maths might be utter tripe!
Nonetheless, there's some big and small numbers there.


The income statement doesn't break down either of its expenses lines to know where the money goes, although you can include staff costs and donations in there.

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Thunder
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Thunder » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:08 pm

That is shocking reading, 160k salary for one person for a once a year event. That’s high end NHS Board Chief Executive wages(most boards will be lower).

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plmc135
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by plmc135 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:51 am

An absolute disgrace, no wonder a ticket costs so much. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

willow70
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by willow70 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:22 am

The poor chap has to top up his £50K + pension somehow.

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Thunderbolt II
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Thunderbolt II » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:30 am

People don't know the half about "charities" in general.

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RJ79
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by RJ79 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:57 am

Think of what Vulcan to the Sky paid their directors........ Charities are a cash making exercise for the directors for sure!
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plmc135
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by plmc135 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:42 pm

Thunderbolt II wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:30 am
People don't know the half about "charities" in general.
Many years ago one of the magistrates on my father's bench was a director of Oxfam. He told my Dad that at that time only about 10p in the pound actually went on the charitable work and the rest on incidental expenses.

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Thunder
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Thunder » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:58 pm

Even half of the top persons wage would be a very good income for what they actually do in the grand scheme of things. In regards to the Vulcan to the Sky fiasco, weren't the top dogs all driving around in top of the range Range Rovers as they thought it portrayed a better image of the trust, or was that just hear say?

No two ways that a lot of so called charities are misrun and peoples donations are whittled away before they actually reach the actual cause :grr:

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Thunderbolt II
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Thunderbolt II » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:17 pm

Aware this is getting a bit off topic, but always annoys me when people state they work for a charity, as if it's something heroic. Volunteer, yes, maybe, but work for financial reward...?

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Blackcat1
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Blackcat1 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:31 pm

I volunteer , I don't think its heroic ! But I do get off my arse for no money, but that's up to me :thumb:
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by page_verify » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:45 pm

Sadly, the reality these days is that if you don't pay market rates for staff and services then charities struggle to raise hit the 10% donation ratio. You cannot run a not-for-profit firm (which is what a charity is) on favours and goodwill.


That said, you'd ask whether the director of a charity which has struggled to generate much income lately might offer to be paid slightly less - just like the directors of a for-profit firm who are struggling to sell much. That's where I see there being an opportunity to win favour with RIAT's fans.

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plmc135
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by plmc135 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:35 pm

I wonder what funds would be available to make payment, if all those who rolled their tickets over from 2020 and all those mad enough to purchase tickets for 2021, requested a refund.

Deramore
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Deramore » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:58 pm

Yes I wonder if I might have lost my money. If it's a private company all those ticket sales are creditors against the company not income although the funds should be held as cash.

We should not discount the last income source.

Other than ticket sales the last airshow was 14 months ago. Next airshow MIGHT be 15 months away so they have had 2 full years of expenditure and no income.

Can anyone confirm that the finance director has left ?

wireman
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by wireman » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:18 pm

From the Companies House register--Steve Gunyon--Finance Directcor
GUNYON, Steven Leslie

Correspondence address
Douglas Bader House, Horcott Hill, Fairford, Gloucestershire, GL7 4RB
Role RESIGNED
Director
Date of birth
September 1955
Appointed on
5 September 2013
Resigned on
5 January 2021
Nationality
British
Country of residence
United Kingdom
Occupation
Director Of Finance

robopog
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by robopog » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:39 am

Slightly off topic but in a similar vein, I'm a volunteer with Mountain Rescue England Wales and I'm always happy that EVERYONE is a volunteer, we don't have paid CEOs/admin staff like a lot of other charities.

Fingers crossed for RIAT 2021 though :thumb:

100arw
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by 100arw » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:00 am

robopog wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:39 am
we don't have paid CEOs/admin staff like a lot of other charities.

Just out of interest, what was your groups last year's chartable income?
P.

Deramore
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Deramore » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:15 pm

What does one look for at companies house

RAFCE ?

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Skywatcher
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Re: Royal International Air Tattoo 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Post by Skywatcher » Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:03 pm

Unless I’m missing something ,doesn’t look like any updates for aircraft participation today ,also maybe a worry that last update on the RIAT website was back in December :unsure: ,not looking good unless anyone else knows differently,yes I know there are a lot more important things in the world at the moment than aircraft participation announcements,but just thought it’s awfully quiet at the moment :unsure: :'(
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