REDS at RIAT & other airshows

[C24]

I thought that comments in another thread re Awards inferring that the Team lack some pizzazz might warrant a specific thread to gather suggestions, so here goes.

The routines involves three colours of smoke commencing with the cloud sequence on the runway borrowed from A.N.Others.
This year included the 100 manoeuvre.
Many manoeuvres used a single colour, generally white. White tends to blend in with cloud (unless it is a British rain threatening cloud of gray/grey).

So, on the runway, "We're here!", a "darn" great cloud of RED smoke from all nine would make the statement.

RED to replace white when now used alone and a predominance of RED whenever all three colours are used.

RED for the aircraft on the outside of the formations.

How would you improve the Team??

[jem60]

I think you're suggestion re smoke has a lot of merit.

[Zac Hinchcliffe]

I'm sure I remember hearing or reading there is only a finite amount of coloured smoke they can use during any given display. There's probably a very valid reason why white is used so much more

Zac

[Droptank]

I saw the Reds a number of times over the RIAT weekend and actually thought they (for once) were blessed with weather that suited their
performance, outstanding capabilities and formations.

I thought their formations were particularly tight throughout the weekend, the "bomb burst" on Sunday was immaculate and the addition
of the RAF 100 effect at the end of the display was great!

I am also still amazed (even after watching them since around 1966) by the synchro pair manoeuvres when performing opposition passes,
they fly down the display line at very low level, inverted and rolling and at some points during the rolling turns pointing downwards!

...how much "spectacle" do you want?

I appreciate that it's not "on trend" to praise our guys but give them a break, they are far more professional than the "foreign Johnnies"
who displayed at RIAT this year and so should be applauded accordingly.

Only my view...

Droptank.

[Timmo]

I'm sure I remember hearing or reading there is only a finite amount of coloured smoke they can use during any given display. There's probably a very valid reason why white is used so much more

Zac

Correct Zac.

Smoke is generated by injecting diesel into the jet efflux just after the jet pipe. The high temperature turns the diesel to white smoke. The red and blue colours are generated by mixing a dye in with the diesel. I think the reds carry enough diesel for approximately 12 minutes of smoke, with sufficient dye for 1-2 minutes of red and 1-2 minutes of blue (happy to be corrected on this if wrong!).

To allow for more coloured smoke during the display, the converted Aden cannon pod (where the diesel is stored on the Red Arrows Hawks) would have to be modified and there are complex procedures/release to service/costing details that would have to be addressed.

[Red-Eye-Knight]

I'm sure I remember hearing or reading there is only a finite amount of coloured smoke they can use during any given display. There's probably a very valid reason why white is used so much more

Zac

Correct Zac.

Smoke is generated by injecting diesel into the jet efflux just after the jet pipe. The high temperature turns the diesel to white smoke. The red and blue colours are generated by mixing a dye in with the diesel. I think the reds carry enough diesel for approximately 12 minutes of smoke, with sufficient dye for 1-2 minutes of red and 1-2 minutes of blue (happy to be corrected on this if wrong!).

To allow for more coloured smoke during the display, the converted Aden cannon pod (where the diesel is stored on the Red Arrows Hawks) would have to be modified and there are complex procedures/release to service/costing details that would have to be addressed.

Hello 1st time posting on here so thought i would join in...You are correct Timmo about how the reds produce the smoke but they only carry enough for 7 minutes worth 5 white and 1 each for red and blue.

[gnirtS]

Yes the reds do inverted, opposition passes, fly low (well "low" by new safety restrictions) and flight a tight formation and yes they're good. However, foreign display teams all do the same and a lot of them are generally just as neat about it.
The reds and pilots are excellent no doubt BUT there are equals elsewhere.

What i find with their display is a little too much "looking at nothing" while they reposition for a formation change or next move. Other teams seem to have "more going on" to that extent for me so you're watching a solo or a pair more while the bulk adjusts etc so theres less "down time". This isn't gung-ho or piloting skills, its the actual design of the routine itself.

Some things they could consider for example, the 7 plus synchro pair has been used for decades now. Other teams mix it up with a solo part or like Frecce rather than opposition synchro moves have 4 and 5 aircraft opposition passes etc. Vary things and try something new. They've got the pilots to try it, they've (just about) got the aircraft for it.

Displays are limited time so the less time is spent with the audience looking at nothing the better it is (the F35 on Friday was awful for this. 75% of the time he was repoitioning out of sight or miles away).

Regarding the smoke colours they had changed a bit at RIAT. At Swansea and Yeovilton the entire heart and arrow was white to which most people said "it should be red for a heart" or the arrow at least.
At FFD on Friday at least they DID try coloured smoke for it. Sadly met conditions meant the heart and the 100 sky writing failed dismally but that's not their fault so they do adjust within limits of smoke and conditions if possible.

Most people in the UK *ONLY* see the Red Arrows. They're busy near daily during season for displays and flypasts at non airbases and airshows and deservedly have a reputation for being excellent. Its only major events like RIAT where you see other countries equivalents you realise there are others just as good or arguably more exciting to watch.

, they are far more professional than the "foreign Johnnies"
who displayed at RIAT this year and so should be applauded accordingly.p

I really can't agree with that. Yes there's the occasional cock up but you'd expect that with so many different countries taking part but none were dangerous or unprofessional. They all get assessed to the same display safety standards and some of the "Johnny foreigners" i thought were fantastic, far better than the RAF equivalents (Frecce was more interesting to me than Reds, the RAF Typhoon far less interesting a display than the other Typhoon or F-18s and 16s for example).