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RIAT 2018 Awards

Post information relating to the Royal International Air Tattoo here.
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StevenNFFC
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by StevenNFFC » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:31 am

Nighthawke wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:02 am
From airtattoo.com website:

"The As The Crow Flies Trophy is awarded in memory of the late Air Marshal Sir Denis Crowley-Milling, former controller of the RAF Benevolent Fund and founder chairman of the Air Tattoo"
And if you continued reading it would say "to the best display as judged by the members of the Friends of the Royal International Air Tattoo"

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Nighthawke
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Nighthawke » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:34 am

I did read further but posted what I thought was the salient bit regarding its origin.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Grahame W » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:47 am

I know it's very much a matter of personal taste, but I found all the RAF displays underwhelming, with the exception of the Chinook. Don't know why that is - they are obviously superbly flown and precise, but somehow lack the panache of some of the foreign participants. I have no arguement with the Couteau Delta award. In fact, all the French displays were superb, as was the Su-27. RAF Typhoon? It was OK, but the Rafale was better. Red Arrows? Dull, the Frecce were much more entertaining. And, let's face it, entertainment is what air shows are all about.
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James Cutting
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by James Cutting » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:09 am

The Frecce this year, as well as the Patrouille de France have been much better than the reds have this year.

Have a strong feeling that these awards were more heavily weighted towards the RAF due to it being RAF 100! RAF Typhoon was a bore to be honest, felt he didn't throw it around as much as the Rafale(s) were during the weekend. Yes, the BBMF was nice with a lovely formation but that was it really just a few circuits - the 617 SQN stuff was much better. Poor year for awards I feel IMHO
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by gnirtS » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:27 pm

Maybe not for the display but the Aguila commentator deserved some sort of aware for absolute outright enthusiasm. No idea what he'd had for breakfast. Very high energy display from the commentator.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by turmo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Nighthawke wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:02 am

"The As The Crow Flies Trophy is awarded in memory of the late Air Marshal Sir Denis Crowley-Milling..."

The "Milling Around" award might have worked better, then. At least it wouldn't have overloaded an existing phrase which has a completely different common interpretation.

The purpose of language is to communicate (1) unambiguously and (2) elegantly. 'As the Crow Flies' fails on both counts.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Nighthawke » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:41 pm

Well maybe he was known to some as "The Crow" given his name - I don't know but does it really matter? A trophy is available in dedication to a man who gave a lot and his memory can live on. Life is too short to worry about such things :)

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by James Cutting » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:46 pm

Exactly, Nighthawke, was originally a bit of a harsh and unnecessary comment to make...
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by peasus911 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:35 pm

gnirtS wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:27 pm
Maybe not for the display but the Aguila commentator deserved some sort of aware for absolute outright enthusiasm. No idea what he'd had for breakfast. Very high energy display from the commentator.
Completely agree with you :D

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Blackcat1 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:32 pm

I didn't get to see Couteau Delta this year, were they any better than last year?
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by jem60 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 pm

GrahamW's comments are interesting, regarding the R.A.F Displays. Over the many years where I did attend Airshows here and abroad, I always felt that the Frecci. and many other foreign teams exhibited more 'panache' than R.A.F participants. Problem is that their accident rate was also considerably higher in many cases!!!. I would rather see a conservative display than a dangerous one!!. As regards the 'Frecci', I was at Fairford watching their display with someone who knew a lot more about flying than I, and we both reckoned that their display was pushing the limits too much. Two weeks later, the Ramstein disaster occurred..................

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Droptank » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:27 pm

The comments relating to the RIAT 2018 awards are very interesting.

I was confused as others were by some of the awards and felt the judges (whoever they were) had a biased opinion of some sort, I
was fortunate enough to be at RIAT for seven days so saw all the displays at least once.

That said, the reasoning behind the award preferences is similar to ours, they simply liked something different to somebody else!

The very fact that everybody contributing to this thread found something preferable (or not) to another display item is encouraging
and only goes to show that, despite what I feel is unfounded criticism of RIAT, there IS obviously something for everybody in Fairford
skies each and every July.

Next year's NATO celebration at RIAT will hopefully bring similar conjecture as I imagine all NATO air arms will be present with their
latest hardware and honed display performances making "best in class" selection even more difficult.

Can't wait.

Droptank.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Grahame W » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:42 pm

Jem60 's comments are thought-provoking as always. I know that the Frecce had that horrendous accident at Ramstein but have they had one since? What about the Patrouille de France? Or the Patrouille Suisse? I dispute the contention that "flair" and "exciitement" equates to "dangerous". It's not just the Reds. So many of the current RAF displays strike me as - well - dull. Look at the BBMF and compare them with some of the warbird displays at Duxford. Maybe it is something to do with the British military mindset. I don't expect many people to agree with me. The Reds in particular are very close to the public's heart, which is great. It's just my half-a-euro's worth.
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by jem60 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:40 pm

Grahame W. Patrouille Swiss had a collision on June9th last year? losing one aircraft with a successful ejection, and a safe landing by the other one. Leeuwarden rehearsal if I recollect correctly. Teams in the U.S.A were also part of my thoughts, not just Europe. Regards, John.
Last edited by jem60 on Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by MRTT » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:42 pm

June 2016 and yes, was at Leeuwarden.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by C24 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:20 am

A reminder of Flt Lt. Jon Egging, RAF who died on 20?th August 2011 at the Bournemouth airshow.

Just a thought.
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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by jem60 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:52 am

Not forgotten. I must confess to disliking very close formation aerobatics, having witnessed several accidents over the years!. I think it stems from, many years ago as an A.T.C. Cadet, flying in formation over the Moray Firth in company with another Anson [ yes, I am that old....in age anyway] and the guy on the right was holding his aircraft in a constant right hand bank, 'cos our wings were OVERLAPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!. I kid you not!!!!!!!!!!. Very very scary!!!. :whistle: :whistle: It's worth using Wikipedia to see the history of individual aerobatic teams. Very interesting over the years. Patrouille Swiss have had only one accident in their history. Every other team has had numerous, and historically, 'The Blue Angels' have a 10% mortality rate!!!.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by paddyboy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:11 pm

Reverting to the Ramstein tragedy, the previous Saturday, we were watching my favourite team at Bentwaters with mixed cloud and they did their full display, which was very surprising, as the Reds, quite rightly, pulled their intermediate routine.
The Frecce disappeared at stages and the manoeuvre which precipitated the tragedy was performed in full, to our total surprise.
Too gung ho, pumped up, confident, who knows.
They are still my favourite team, but safety MUST always come first.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by Redflag17 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:45 pm

Can we give an award to the air traffic controller who kept the b2 in a holding pattern while we all watched it and ignored the Chinook only to find it then only had time for 1 pass. much hype thro the day of a surprise in the flying display only to watch it circle for 15 minutes in the distance. the show must go on.

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Re: RIAT 2018 Awards

Post by ST24 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:48 pm

jem60 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 pm
I was at Fairford watching their display with someone who knew a lot more about flying than I, and we both reckoned that their display was pushing the limits too much. Two weeks later, the Ramstein disaster occurred..................
That's not actually true though is it as there wasn't a Fairford show in 1988, furthermore IATs have traditionally been late June/early July - Ramstein was the August bank holiday weekend..

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