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Rolls... Real or Fake?
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
As "one1938" writes, Roly Falk did roll a Mk 1 Vulcan on more than one occasion. Source, Tony Blackman's book, "Vulcan Test Pilot".
Page 103: Roly Falk had done simple rolls ... in XA890. ...the first prototype VX770 had been looped. ...at Hucknall, pilots were carrying out aerobatics at the end of each sortie...doing rolls of the tops ... one day a full loop was carried out though hushed up.
Page 128: in June 1955 Roly demonstrated XA889, the first production model. ...on the 31st August he took off from Woodford and practised a few barrel rolls to the east of the Pennines.
There is more in the book basically confirming that it was not uncommon to perform aeros during RAF squadron sorties.
Who wouldn't ?
Page 103: Roly Falk had done simple rolls ... in XA890. ...the first prototype VX770 had been looped. ...at Hucknall, pilots were carrying out aerobatics at the end of each sortie...doing rolls of the tops ... one day a full loop was carried out though hushed up.
Page 128: in June 1955 Roly demonstrated XA889, the first production model. ...on the 31st August he took off from Woodford and practised a few barrel rolls to the east of the Pennines.
There is more in the book basically confirming that it was not uncommon to perform aeros during RAF squadron sorties.
Who wouldn't ?
C24.
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There's no "go-round" in a glider.
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Piloting [anything] is a very disciplined activity. What bothers me much is not the fact that it was possibly barrel rolled, but has this manouvre been practised by the crew beforehand?. If so, where was this done. presumably over the sea??. Is the Vulcan crewed by just the two pilots, or are other crew aboard?. If other crew are aboard, then perhaps they were in danger of being place in a dangerous situation by pilots possibly John Wayneing around? Barrel rolls are not outside the capability of most aircraft, given the fact that positive 'G' must be maintained throught, and starts with a substantial pull -up., and if there is enough momentum, given all sorts of other more subtle control inputs, round it should go. The possible worry I have with this is that the pull-up is always followed by a steepish nosed down attitude, which has cost the lives of many a crew and aircraft over the years. The P38 at Duxford is a classic example. If the altitude of this supposed event was at a relatively low altitude, then I would be surprised if the CAA took no action. Problem is, if too much height IS being lost after the roll, then pulling harder to cure it is perhaps not an easy answer. Overstress, high speed stall etc...
I love Airshows, and have attended hundreds over many years, and even saw a Vulcan pull into a half loop with a roll off the top on take-off!!.[Farnborough a lifetime ago!] Good old days!, except that I have seen pilots killed by rule breaking several times. Definitely not nice!! Problem for me is that rule-breaking and flying are not good bed fellows, and the oft quoted adage ALWAYS applies. There are a lot of old pilots and a lot of bold pilots etc.,etc., Personally, I care little whether or not it was rolled. The safety aspect is a little bothersome to me.
I love Airshows, and have attended hundreds over many years, and even saw a Vulcan pull into a half loop with a roll off the top on take-off!!.[Farnborough a lifetime ago!] Good old days!, except that I have seen pilots killed by rule breaking several times. Definitely not nice!! Problem for me is that rule-breaking and flying are not good bed fellows, and the oft quoted adage ALWAYS applies. There are a lot of old pilots and a lot of bold pilots etc.,etc., Personally, I care little whether or not it was rolled. The safety aspect is a little bothersome to me.
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Discipline. Aah, yes!
Lorry drivers using mobile phones on the move; drivers not using indicators to warn others of their intentions to manoeuvre, I could go on but my morning cuppa would get cold.
Perfectly yours,
Charlie
Lorry drivers using mobile phones on the move; drivers not using indicators to warn others of their intentions to manoeuvre, I could go on but my morning cuppa would get cold.
Perfectly yours,
Charlie
C24.
493d/48th - Grim Reapers Supporter.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/charlie-two-four/ FuzzyFastjetFotos, incorporating "HazyHelos"
There's no "go-round" in a glider.
493d/48th - Grim Reapers Supporter.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/charlie-two-four/ FuzzyFastjetFotos, incorporating "HazyHelos"
There's no "go-round" in a glider.
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Vulcans used to do a figure of eight within the airfield boundaries at Cottemore - but I don't believe XH558 rolled over Grantham. If it was going to happen the crew would have taken her out over the North Sea away from prying eyes.
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
The Fox wrote:
If they are found to be genuine the outcome could be quite traumatic. I see a couple of immediate actions:
1. Martin Withers has his Vulcan display authority revoked.
2. The Vulcan gets grounded
Oh dear, thinking about it.....
But surely there will have to be another drawn out Chilcott report on this alleged incident......
I bet some peoples somewhere are quietly thinking of ........."The Return of Vulcan to The Sky part two" .
If they are found to be genuine the outcome could be quite traumatic. I see a couple of immediate actions:
1. Martin Withers has his Vulcan display authority revoked.
2. The Vulcan gets grounded
Oh dear, thinking about it.....
But surely there will have to be another drawn out Chilcott report on this alleged incident......
I bet some peoples somewhere are quietly thinking of ........."The Return of Vulcan to The Sky part two" .
- Blue Diamond
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
You may have failed to notice but roll or no roll, the Vulcan didn't crash nor even come close to crashing.jem60 wrote:Piloting [anything] is a very disciplined activity. What bothers me much is not the fact that it was possibly barrel rolled, but has this manouvre been practised by the crew beforehand?. If so, where was this done. presumably over the sea??. Is the Vulcan crewed by just the two pilots, or are other crew aboard?. If other crew are aboard, then perhaps they were in danger of being place in a dangerous situation by pilots possibly John Wayneing around? Barrel rolls are not outside the capability of most aircraft, given the fact that positive 'G' must be maintained throught, and starts with a substantial pull -up., and if there is enough momentum, given all sorts of other more subtle control inputs, round it should go. The possible worry I have with this is that the pull-up is always followed by a steepish nosed down attitude, which has cost the lives of many a crew and aircraft over the years. The P38 at Duxford is a classic example. If the altitude of this supposed event was at a relatively low altitude, then I would be surprised if the CAA took no action. Problem is, if too much height IS being lost after the roll, then pulling harder to cure it is perhaps not an easy answer. Overstress, high speed stall etc...
I love Airshows, and have attended hundreds over many years, and even saw a Vulcan pull into a half loop with a roll off the top on take-off!!.[Farnborough a lifetime ago!] Good old days!, except that I have seen pilots killed by rule breaking several times. Definitely not nice!! Problem for me is that rule-breaking and flying are not good bed fellows, and the oft quoted adage ALWAYS applies. There are a lot of old pilots and a lot of bold pilots etc.,etc., Personally, I care little whether or not it was rolled. The safety aspect is a little bothersome to me.
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Think I would have heard about it if it had crashed, or come near to it. I know this post ambled on a bit, but you may have failed to notice that the post was really more about whether or not breaking rules is a good thing or not. The P38 at Duxford had been rolled many times without coming anywhere near to crashing.... until one day, it did............
I
I
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Similar too the A26 invader at biggin hill sometimes we dont learn from previous mistakes....That said the Vulcan was not displaying and was at a significant altitude where I doubt the risk was any more than a conventional wing over.jem60 wrote:Think I would have heard about it if it had crashed, or come near to it. I know this post ambled on a bit, but you may have failed to notice that the post was really more about whether or not breaking rules is a good thing or not. The P38 at Duxford had been rolled many times without coming anywhere near to crashing.... until one day, it did............
I
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Slightly different circumstances to what the Vulcan may or may not have done over Grantham.jem60 wrote:Think I would have heard about it if it had crashed, or come near to it. I know this post ambled on a bit, but you may have failed to notice that the post was really more about whether or not breaking rules is a good thing or not. The P38 at Duxford had been rolled many times without coming anywhere near to crashing.... until one day, it did............
I
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Folks, apologies if I've missed the important posts but two weeks after the last flight is there any confirmation that the Vulcan actually did roll?
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
I'd be curious to know too.
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
As the CAA haven't released the findings of their investigations, it's unlikely anyone knows yet.
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Probably consigned to Room 101 along with 'Old Wives Tales' of Headless Horsemen, Tooth Fairies & Live Public Taxi-runs by the Vulcan!
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
I guarantee at least 3 people know, but are staying Shtumm on the matter.
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Apologies for the plug mods
Yesterday, Dr Pleming, Chief Exec of the VTST gave UKAR an in depth no holes barred interview on the current state of the XH558, the future and how it happened.
As part of that interview Dr Pleming confirmed that the rolls DID happen.
You can listen to the hour long interview here, it is also on iTunes:-
http://www.airshows.co.uk/podcast/
Andy
*hides*
Yesterday, Dr Pleming, Chief Exec of the VTST gave UKAR an in depth no holes barred interview on the current state of the XH558, the future and how it happened.
As part of that interview Dr Pleming confirmed that the rolls DID happen.
You can listen to the hour long interview here, it is also on iTunes:-
http://www.airshows.co.uk/podcast/
Andy
*hides*
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
I think the phrase you're looking for is 'no-holds' Andy. Unless it was a particularly rigorous interview.
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
****That interview is a must listen for all Vulcan fans****
Fascinating to hear Dr Plemming in his own words describing the current situation (which seems rather touch & go despite his optimism), and some pretty probing & astute questioning by the reporter too!
I thought I'd jump for joy when I heard that she had been rolled, but given that it was post-Shoreham & directly contravened the permit to fly which prohibited aerobatic maneuvers... I'm not so sure But let's face it, what's done is done, it can never happen again.... & the crew proved, you can indeed barrel roll the old girl!
Matt
Fascinating to hear Dr Plemming in his own words describing the current situation (which seems rather touch & go despite his optimism), and some pretty probing & astute questioning by the reporter too!
I thought I'd jump for joy when I heard that she had been rolled, but given that it was post-Shoreham & directly contravened the permit to fly which prohibited aerobatic maneuvers... I'm not so sure But let's face it, what's done is done, it can never happen again.... & the crew proved, you can indeed barrel roll the old girl!
Matt
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Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
Dan O'Hagans, pod cast interview with Dr Pleming, can be found here.
http://www.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/downl ... sode-9.mp3
http://www.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/downl ... sode-9.mp3
Re: Rolls... Real or Fake?
gamecock wrote:I think the phrase you're looking for is 'no-holds' Andy. Unless it was a particularly rigorous interview.
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