Vulcan XH558 in 2011.All posts here please.

[GOOSE]

The aircraft still has the ability to draw the crowds, all those people who stayed on at Bruntingthorpe yesterday, to witness her departure, are testament to that!

If all those people put an extra fiver into the donation appeal........... (if you donated or bought from the appeal tent - many, many thanks.)

Each time I see her I hope it won't be the last time and am therefore compelled to donate another £5.58. Not everyone can though but to those who are able, from a fellow enthusiast to fellow enthusiasts, go on. How much did you enjoy seeing her last time? Certainly more than the price of a couple of pints................

(soapbox dismounted, sorry)

[Sheff]

My view is that the air shows could simply stick another fiver on the admission prices. I doubt if any of the punters would object to paying an extra fiver to see a Vulcan in the flying display and the result would be a huge amount of money. Ballpark figure for example - RIAT, maybe 200,000 people at a fiver a time... oh yeh that's a million quid...

Will they do it? Nope, course not, because they're not actually interested in the enthusiasts, they're just interested in making money. Sad innit?!

[GOOSE]

I agree Sheff but I suppose I'm an aviation romantic at heart. I won't keep badgering on about donations but the crowd at Brunty yesterday all enjoyed seeing her and went home with smiles on their faces,

The Vulcan effect is certainly alive and well.

[beefsteak]

My view is that the air shows could simply stick another fiver on the admission prices. I doubt if any of the punters would object to paying an extra fiver to see a Vulcan in the flying display and the result would be a huge amount of money. Ballpark figure for example - RIAT, maybe 200,000 people at a fiver a time... oh yeh that's a million quid...

Will they do it? Nope, course not, because they're not actually interested in the enthusiasts, they're just interested in making money. Sad innit?!

Aren't you forgetting that RIAT is already a charity, and are not there to line their own pockets !!

Any way , I've sent off the 30 quid to the fund that I would have paid for us to go in yesterday (Had I made it there) Hopefully I'll be well enough to go to Cosford on the 12th June.

[Hornet]

Seeing as its miserable outside heres a little compilation of vulcan displays i filmed at cosford and riat nice howls
too Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu-0uqC40qc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GOOSE]

Top man Beefie, so that's £35.58 in the space of a few minutes..........imagine if everyone else was so compelled?

[Hurn]

Aren't you forgetting that RIAT is already a charity, and are not there to line their own pockets !!

Indeed it is, well said. And another fiver on an already expensive RIAT ticket? Really? This silly notion keeps cropping up but has absolutely no validity, especially at a charity event like RIAT.

It would be a nice gesture if some of the other larger shows could donate say £1 per ticket to the Vulcan but I suppose when you're paying £12,000+ for a Vulcan display then most organisers would consider that enough support, not to mention there already seems to be some tension that the Vulcan is stealing all the available funds from shows. Yeovilton already seems to be unable to book something as important as the Sea Vixen due to lack of funds.

Alas it comes down to us enthusiasts to do what we can, but at least TVOC seem to be heading in the right direction commercially (if the latest Doncaster vision release is to be believed anyway) so who knows.

Saying that I will just do what I always have and value every Vulcan display I get to see as if it's the last. Just hoping that for me it wasn't last year's at Dunsfold.

[Sheff]

This silly notion keeps cropping up

No it doesn't, and it's not silly. We're all well aware of RIAT's aims to raise money for charity but we also know just how big a crowd puller the Vulcan is. The equation I mentioned obviously doesn't apply only to RIAT but it illustrates what could be done if every show that hosts the Vulcan stuck a couple of quid on the admission price. A couple of quid is neither here nor there and I'm sure everyone would be more than happy to pay that little bit extra to see the Vulcan. Two quid to see a Vulcan display? It's nothing, but more to the point it's a guaranteed income. It doesn't affect the show's normal revenue so everybody is happy. If every show did that there would be no problem in funding the Vulcan.

Trouble is, the shows don't want to know. It's quite ridiculous when one considers just how much additional money they have undoubtedly gathered because of the Vulcan. It's just a case of the shows being self-absorbed and unwilling to work together to finance an exhibit which has boosted air show audiences out of all proportion to the money it gets.

This notion that the Vulcan is somehow stealing funds from other exhibits is the really silly concept. Naturally the shows want to pay for the Vulcan because they know only too well what a crowd-puller it is. Other aircraft might also be "must-see" types but clearly they're not as popular as the Vulcan, otherwise the shows would be booking those - not the Vulcan. It's a crazy argument. What are people suggesting? That the Vulcan is some sort of evil drain on resources that could go to other great aircraft like the Sea Vixen? Nonsense - it is taking resources because it is so popular, that's the point.

The talk of great things at Finningley is fine but in effect it has absolutely no relevance to the Vulcan's future. You can be sure that once XH558 stops flying, it will not be much of an attraction at Finningley. It will be no more interesting that the Vulcans at Newark, Southend, Wellesbourne or anywhere else. All that matters is keeping the aircraft flying for as long as possible. The rest is irrelevant. When it's over then it really is over and XH558 becomes just another static exhibit like any other. It might move occasionally but I fail to see how the airport will enable spectators to see this (the CAA ain't gonna allow spectators to line-up along the side of the runway). The project is (or at least should be) all about getting money to keep the aircraft flying. The shows obviously know what an asset the Vulcan is, but for the sake of taking a bit of cash from a willing audience, the project is stalling. It's madness. If the shows (especially those like RIAT which were ostensibly set-up to cater for the interests of "enthusiasts") are really clued-up about catering for our interests, they could resolve the issue easily. As it is, they'd rather milk money out of enthusiasts for grandstands, "special access" and all manner of glittering attractions that are essentially designed to make money. You'd think that they'd accept the value of the Vulcan, accept that their key audience wants to support it, and do something while they can.

Even if we throw-in the old argument about shows being for the general public then the same applies. The Vulcan is up there with the Red Arrows and the BBMF in terms of attracting Joe Public, so why not do something to ensure it keeps entertaining the public for as long as possible? Nope, the reason this doesn't happen is because the shows have their heads stuck in proverbial sand and they simply want to book the Vulcan, pay their fee, and let others somehow manage to keep the aircraft available for them to book year after year. It says a lot about the shows. How many times do we read posts from people saying what a great job the shows do to show us aircraft we want to see, despite all the odds? It's as if we are supposed to be somehow obliged to shower praise and support on them, almost as if they're doing us some sort of favour. They are not - they're providing a source of entertainment in exchange for money. It follows that if they had the good sense to realise that one of the biggest sources of money is the Vulcan, then they could do something constructive to make sure it's back again next year. But of course they will not.

[Hurn]

If you did a poll on all the enthusiast aviation sites on whether they'd accept an extra £5 on a ticket to support the Vulcan I doubt there'd be many who would want it. There'd be a lot complaining however that they were being forced to fund something against their will and would rather see their fiver go elsewhere. Try it and see.

I've no doubt that the Vulcan is a draw to many, but shows have a finite amount of room on the airfield anyway. Duxford seems to do fine without a Vulcan, and the seaside shows like Bournemouth will always pull in the punters if the sun is shining, as in fact will most shows.

I went to RIAT in 2007, (the last time you could just pay on the gate), there was no Vulcan at all but the place was ridiculously packed out. So much so that they introduced the ticketing the following year because they couldn't cope with the crowds, so it's not like shows have suddenly become popular because the Vulcan is displaying. Same when I went to Biggin Hill and Yeovilton in 07. Nice day, huge crowds.
There will be a portion who will go to a display just to see the Vulcan, but in the main the public will turn up for a nice day out regardless of whether the Vulcan is there or not provided there's a decent variety of aircraft. Of course if the Vulcan is sucking up the funds then that variety is less.

Personally I love to see the Vulcan and would rather pick a show with it than without, but I'm in a minority, and you simply cannot say it's pulling in more punters than before when it's obvious that the large shows have always been pulling in the crowds before the Vulcan returned.

At a smaller show however the Vulcan will be a big draw, but those shows simply wouldn't be able to afford to give money from tickets to TVOC and still break even or make a small profit.

[Sheff]

Slightly specious argument there. It assumes that the same numbers of people would still attend the same shows, regardless of the Vulcan's presence. I'd be fascinated to see Waddington's attendance figures this year without a Vulcan or Thunderbirds. In fact I'd be interested to see RIAT's figures for this year if the Vulcan doesn't turn up.

I guess the problem is that nobody will know just how air shows have lost so much appeal over the past couple of years, until the Vulcan's gone. Problem is, it'll be gone then...

[Hurn]

All I'm saying is that in 2007 before the Vulcan was flying, shows were still doing good trade and selling out. Any reduction in airshow attendance numbers in future wont just singularly be down to the Vulcan, it'll also be an overall lack of current military jets due to the downsizing of all the air arms. However if the Vulcan were grounded tomorrow I still think large shows like RIAT would see good numbers in attendance for a few more years, so long as there was something unusual to see.

The one thing for sure though is that a £5 Vulcan tax on an airshow ticket would be widely unpopular with punters. Of that I'm certain.
It's difficult enough getting the public to donate as it is without making them even more disgruntled by forcing it on them. Like I said, do a poll on the enthusiast sites and I'll wager the majority would be against the idea.

[Sheff]

I did say that if such an idea was put into practise, a couple of quid on top of an admission ticket would be enough, if all the main shows could do it. I'm sure some people would complain but so what? It's impossible to please everybody. It's more a question of doing what makes sense for the broader picture. Asking what enthusiasts think on a forum is pointless - the internet doesn't give you a valid response, it only gives you the views of a very few people (ie- the ones that bother to write anything). But anyway we're talking about an abstract idea here - it's never going to happen!

As for your comment about RIAT, I really don't think the numbers of people attending will stay at their present level. Unless something special is announced over the next month, there will be a lot of very disillusioned spectators this year. You can sense this even now if you listen to what people say. Even the most enthusiastic guys are wondering why they're bothering to go. If this is XH558's last year I suspect that RIAT 2012 will be the last in its present form... unless the RIAT team are just stubborn - or crazy - or both!

[beefsteak]

One thing you need to remember Sheff, to tell people to be prepared to pay extra to support XH 558 you need to be prepared to pay the entrance fee yourself , something you have put in print as being something you don't yourself do!!!!

[Hornet]

Well im looking forward to seeing the A10 flying at riat this year

[Sheff]

Not about telling people to pay, it's about the Vulcan getting funding that's in proportion to its value. Look at it this way, just for the sake of a random figure, take 200,000 people for Fairford, maybe 12K for the Vulcan... do the maths and we get maybe 8p out of your admission fee to see XH558 perform. Okay it's an abstract figure but doesn't that just sound vaguely absurd to you?

[beefsteak]

Well if your maths are owt to go on,, 200,000 divided by 12,000 = 16.666p reccuring, so if the figure you worked on is actually double the correct answer , ,,,,,,,, !!!!!... I rest my case.,,,,

Now pay up and look happy !!!

[Sheff]

I should do my maths more carefully. Okay, sixteen pence it is - worth every penny!

[Hurn]

I imagine Old Bawtry Road at Doncaster would be a good place to pick up some donations. Do they get out there with some buckets for you all to throw your change in?

[benyboy]

I (and many others) have put money in the buckets going around on the old Bawtry Road.
I

[wokka]

I wasnt in agreement with Sheff at the start, but I do really think that the Airshow industry has a lot to be grateful for, to the preservation organisations. In particular the airshow organisors across the country. Sure, they have to pay for the participation of the aircraft, but if it wasnt for the people who do the hard work they wouldnt have a flood of people coming to their towns for one day a year increasing their commerce and public profile. I suppose, in particular I would aim this at the seafront shows. But I have no idea how you could get confirmed donations.

Maybe a third entrance tent as you go through the gate at shows. The first one takes your show money, the second one has the armed search teams, and the third has the vulcan (or other preseved item) fundraising team with buckets. Of course, if they decide not to donate, they can then be sent back to gate 2

I also think the preservation groups should be cuter and wise up to the fact that not everyone goes in to the show and get some buckets out to the local roads.