166694 C-40A & 169334 P-8 OTT Grantham 29.07.2020

[Everett1285]

Hi,
Can anyone please confirm the present operating unit for 166694 C-40A & 169334 P-8 both seen heading northbound AM & PM 29.07.20 respectively.

Regards
Everett1285

[Andy Marden]

169334 belongs to VP-47. But I am a bit bemused by how you managed to tie-up the tactical hexcode to that serial. It could just as easily have been any of the aircraft on the Sigonella detachment...

[Rubberneck]

worth remembering tactical codes so tie-ups from virtual radar should not be taken as gospel.

[rh226]

166694 seems to be home-based at Oceana, which would make it VR-56.

[Mike]

169334 belongs to VP-47. But I am a bit bemused by how you managed to tie-up the tactical hexcode to that serial. It could just as easily have been any of the aircraft on the Sigonella detachment...

Exactly Andy, 169334 was mentioned here today :- viewtopic.php?f=342&t=192816

However these need to be eyeballed as USN P-8 serials cannot be trusted on military tracking sites.

[Everett1285]

Hi Andy, Rubberneck & Mike,
Firstly thanks very much for your replies but if your bemused an old duffer like myself is totally lost 'hex codes, tactical code tie-ups’ from virtual radar’. I must admit I procured the serial number from the heads up section after seeing both P-8s go over my location so any help in regards how to understand hex codes, tactical code tie-ups from virtual radar that you have mentioned would be very much appreciated.

Regards
Everett1285

To Bob,
Thanks very much for your reply as always very much appreciated.

Regards
Colin

[Andy Marden]

Colin,
I’ll try to explain this as simply as possible, so everyone please excuse any generalities or shortcuts (and indeed minor factual errors).

The first very important thing to bear in mind is that an aircraft does not transmit its serial number. It transmits a hex code. Each aircraft theoretically has its own hex code. The system you are using (Freedar, ADSB, radarbox, FR24 etc etc) then looks up that code in its database, and shows you the serial associated with it. This works very well with the vast majority of aircraft. There are some minor problems, in that if the aircraft’s hex code has been input incorrectly by the technician, then the wrong identity will be displayed. This has happened to at least two USAF C-17s, causing them to “show” the serial of another aircraft.

In the old days, the P-8s used their own hex codes. 169328 for example is allocated AE5C5A. This would be transmitted, allowing your system to correctly show the serial as 169328.

However, many military aircraft now use what are called tactical hex codes. This is a security measure, so that individual aircraft cannot be tracked. This was mainly used by fighter-type aircraft at first, but is now widespread in the P-8 community. They use a block of codes, from which one is picked (presumably at random).
Yesterday, the second aircraft (which we now know was in fact 169328) was transmitting AE6861.
As someone said, that code had been previously used by 169334 (and by many other P-8s). Unfortunately, one (or more) of the systems (Freedar, ADSB, radarbox, FR24 etc etc) had associated 169334 with AE6861 in their internal database. For this reason, it was “showing” as 169334 on at least one of them, as someone reported. However, there is absolutely no way that system could have known which aircraft was operating with AE6861 yesterday.

Hopefully the systems will learn not to associate serials with tactical hex codes. That will remove the problem, as no serial will show on peoples’ displays (as indeed happened yesterday – most systems correctly did not give an identity).

Please speak if you need more.
Andy

[Everett1285]

Hi Andy,
Thanks very much for your explanation in regards to hex codes it's appreciated and now that I'm aware what they are I'll be looking into how I can use that particular tool in the future instead of relying solely on the Heads up and movement section. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank member 100arw who kindly private messaged me last night with a similar explanation.

Kind Regards
Everett1285

[baz1]

MK1 eyeball every time its the only way!

[eagle driver]

Colin,

Yesterday, the second aircraft (which we now know was in fact 169328) was transmitting AE6861.
As someone said, that code had been previously used by 169334 (and by many other P-8s). Unfortunately, one (or more) of the systems (Freedar, ADSB, radarbox, FR24 etc etc) had associated 169334 with AE6861 in their internal database. For this reason, it was “showing” as 169334 on at least one of them, as someone reported. However, there is absolutely no way that system could have known which aircraft was operating with AE6861 yesterday.


Please speak if you need more.
Andy

If the second P-8 over the top yesterday has been confirmed as 169328 , do we now also know the serial for the first one Hex AE6784 or is that being kept secret.

[rh226]

E_D,

According to Rch80056's post in the Heads up thread, 169328 (AE6784) was the 1st one and 169002 (AE6861) was the 2nd.

[eagle driver]

Thanks Bob ,
does not matter either way both are not required
Think according to the original list posted there is only one on this deployment that i do need 169331 , which to my knowledge has not been reported anywhere so i have my doubts to it being at Sigonella. Time will tell.

[manutdred]

Hi,

You say AE6861 was 169328. Does anyone know the identity of AE6784?

[rh226]

Please see two posts above yours.