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UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

All discussion about the 2015 SDSR in here please.
Sparts99
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Sparts99 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:04 pm

Got to pay to see the article, can you enlighten us tightwads?
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TonyO
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by TonyO » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:40 pm

Of course can't give away quality content for free... ;-)

But
LONDON — Britain’s Royal Air Force (RAF) is planning to create an eighth front-line Eurofighter Typhoon squadron in the early 2020s as part of its bid to grow its fast jet fleet.

The U.K. defense ministry had already announced its intention to grow from the existing five units to seven as part of the 2015 Strategic Defense and Security Review published last November by retaining Tranche 1 Typhoons that the air force originally had planned to retire in 2018.

Plans for the third unit were revealed by Air Commodore Ian Duguid, the U.K. Typhoon Force Commander, speaking at the International Fighter Conference here on Nov. 16.

“The RAF will grow two additional Typhoon squadrons and develop plans to build a third Typhoon squadron by 2023,” he told delegates.

Officials with knowledge of the plans told Aviation Week that the creation of the squadron was dependent upon the success of the 10-year Typhoon Total Availability Enterprise (Tytan) contract, previously known as the Future State Operating Model. The incentivized contract sees any cost savings re-invested back into Typhoon capability.

The RAF officers are hoping the contract will increase Typhoon availability. The numbers of Typhoons per squadrons will fall, with aircraft allocated to the eighth unit. It is unclear, however, whether the new squadron will be formed of Tranche 1 aircraft or from the later Tranches 2 and 3.

The RAF is planning to retain 30 of the existing 48 Tranche 1 aircraft, mainly for air defense duties.

The first two new squadrons will be formed around 2019 after the retirement of the Panavia Tornado GR4, with one of the units to be formed at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland. The defense ministry has not confirmed where the other will be formed, but it is likely to be at RAF Coningsby, England, the Typhoon main operating base.

Britain’s ambition is to have 10 front-line fast jet squadrons in the early 2020s, including two F-35B squadrons.

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Tally-ho
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Tally-ho » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:29 am

The following extract from UK Defence Journal 18 Nov 2016:-

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-a ... -squadron/
The additional eighth squadron will be formed with air frames taken from the other seven. It’s understood that increased availability will allow squadrons to downsize and provide the aircraft for the eighth squadron while still allowing the same number to fly.
An extra squadron by taking away assets from the other seven? Sounds like re-arranging deckchairs .... :S

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:35 am

A bit of a confusing article that. 5 existing Squadrons, 2 new Squadrons, a third Squadron, the existing two squadrons and so on.

So after the next two Squadrons(IX and XV) are formed around 2018/19 that will bring the total Typhoon Squadrons up to seven, after that they want to build up another Squadron up around about 2023 bringing the total up to eight Typhoon Squadrons(now that makes sense).

Taking airframes from existing Squadrons to make another is actually good thinking, it doesn't really matter how many a/c a Squadron has, it's how many crews. By increasing the number of Squadrons it makes the Typhoon force more deployable and therefore can sustain operations for longer periods.

Can someone please tell me what the current squadron allocation of aircraft is, I've seen mention on here that 6sqn had about 15 a/c is that true?
I know that the Tornado allocation was 12 a/c per front line squadron and TWCU/15(R) having 28 at it's height around 1996, Buccaneers were about the same.

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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by TonyO » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:13 am

Tally-ho wrote:The following extract from UK Defence Journal 18 Nov 2016:-

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-a ... -squadron/
The additional eighth squadron will be formed with air frames taken from the other seven. It’s understood that increased availability will allow squadrons to downsize and provide the aircraft for the eighth squadron while still allowing the same number to fly.
An extra squadron by taking away assets from the other seven? Sounds like re-arranging deckchairs .... :S
It's a complete rip-off of the Aviation Week article, but at least he sourced it.

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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Vulcanone » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:52 am

darn Plagiarism.... :@

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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Andy_99 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:30 pm

Of course it all depends on having enough aircraft available at any one time.

Must be getting the windows 10 anniversary updates on them as according to microsoft that resolves all the issues.

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toom317
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by toom317 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:33 pm

Thunder wrote:A bit of a confusing article that. 5 existing Squadrons, 2 new Squadrons, a third Squadron, the existing two squadrons and so on.

So after the next two Squadrons(IX and XV) are formed around 2018/19 that will bring the total Typhoon Squadrons up to seven, after that they want to build up another Squadron up around about 2023 bringing the total up to eight Typhoon Squadrons(now that makes sense).

Taking airframes from existing Squadrons to make another is actually good thinking, it doesn't really matter how many a/c a Squadron has, it's how many crews. By increasing the number of Squadrons it makes the Typhoon force more deployable and therefore can sustain operations for longer periods.

Can someone please tell me what the current squadron allocation of aircraft is, I've seen mention on here that 6sqn had about 15 a/c is that true?
I know that the Tornado allocation was 12 a/c per front line squadron and TWCU/15(R) having 28 at it's height around 1996, Buccaneers were about the same.
Going back a bit I was told a Sqn had 12 aircraft "available" and 18 crews, but that was a good few years ago in the glory days of the cold war. I don't know if that is the case now.
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Phoon » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:30 pm

Thunder wrote:A bit of a confusing article that. 5 existing Squadrons, 2 new Squadrons, a third Squadron, the existing two squadrons and so on.

So after the next two Squadrons(IX and XV) are formed around 2018/19 that will bring the total Typhoon Squadrons up to seven, after that they want to build up another Squadron up around about 2023 bringing the total up to eight Typhoon Squadrons(now that makes sense).

Taking airframes from existing Squadrons to make another is actually good thinking, it doesn't really matter how many a/c a Squadron has, it's how many crews. By increasing the number of Squadrons it makes the Typhoon force more deployable and therefore can sustain operations for longer periods.

Can someone please tell me what the current squadron allocation of aircraft is, I've seen mention on here that 6sqn had about 15 a/c is that true?
I know that the Tornado allocation was 12 a/c per front line squadron and TWCU/15(R) having 28 at it's height around 1996, Buccaneers were about the same.
Can someone please tell me what the current squadron allocation of aircraft is, I've seen mention on here that 6sqn had about 15 a/c is that true?
I know that the Tornado allocation was 12 a/c per front line squadron and TWCU/15(R) having 28 at it's height around 1996, Buccaneers were about the same.[/quote]

Numbers on strength seem to vary considerably. At one point 6 had around 18 aircraft allocated a year or two ago but I think this may have taken count of them holding air frames whilst 1 sdn stood up at Leuchars and then again when 2 sdn formed at Lossie. 3 and 11 sdns have been down to 11 aircraft at various times in the past.

Looking at numbers of Typhoons we have or potentially will have, 8 frontline squadrons, an OCU (possibly with less aircraft due to increased simulator work) and a handful for 41 sdn should easily be obtainable. As for squadron numbers I very much doubt one or either of those will make the Typhoon force, 9 will most likely become the as yet additional F35 squadron the RAF is having, with possibly 12 or 31 taking the OCU mantle. 19 seems to be hot favorite even thought it has been disbanded for a while........... Defiantly will not be 74.....

Vulcanone
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Vulcanone » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:47 pm

There are still 14 Tranche 3s at Warton and by my reckoning there are another 21 left somewhere in the production run. Assuming we are still getting 40 Tranche 3s.....?

T

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HaveQuick2
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by HaveQuick2 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:00 pm

Vulcanone wrote:There are still 14 Tranche 3s at Warton and by my reckoning there are another 21 left somewhere in the production run. Assuming we are still getting 40 Tranche 3s.....?

T
But the other side of the coin...

Those airframes in storage at Shawbury
Aircraft back at Warton on long-term upgrade
Aircraft on the RTP line at Coningsby
Aircraft bailed back to the manufacturer
and the normal TMU servicings
and the QRA committed frames
and the Falklands det
and Baltic/Middle East ops etc
and the regular summer trips to North America
and on and on.......
HQ2 out

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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by filmman » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:23 pm

Planes need pilot. During the Battle of Britain replacement planes significantly exceeded write offs but replacing pilots was the problem. Today, pilot strength/experience is far more difficult because it takes so Long to train them. Despite the cutbacks we may accidentally have sufficient planes to form more squadrons, but do we have enough pilots now and in training for extra squadrons and a sufficient plane war reserve?
Filmman

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:48 pm

The short answer is 'no', we don't have enough pilots, hence why any new squadrons are at least 2 years away and not tomorrow.

Unknown74
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Unknown74 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:12 pm

Just wondering wether there has been anything else announced as to the 2 forthcoming Typhoon Squadrons which are to be apparently formed at RAF Lossiemouth?

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 pm

As far as I was aware only one of the new Squadrons was to based at Lossie, with the other one forming at Coningsby. The Typhoon OCU 29(R)Sqn was meant to be moving North to Lossie as well, maybe where you got that both Sqns were forming at Lossie. Mind you that idea has probably changed several times on someones desk in some far off office.

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HaveQuick2
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by HaveQuick2 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:09 pm

Thunder wrote:As far as I was aware only one of the new Squadrons was to based at Lossie, with the other one forming at Coningsby. The Typhoon OCU 29(R)Sqn was meant to be moving North to Lossie as well, maybe where you got that both Sqns were forming at Lossie. Mind you that idea has probably changed several times on someones desk in some far off office.
29 Sqn moving to Lossiemouth does not necessarily mean the Typhoon OCU is leaving Coningsby.
HQ2 out

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Thunder
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Thunder » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:29 pm

Except that it was mentioned as 29(R) Typhoon OCU would move North.

RubyRoo
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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by RubyRoo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:26 am

Will Lossiemouth have space for 1, 2, 6, 29, 120, 201 and potentially another Typhoon squadron?

Strategically, it seems like far too many eggs in one basket, but obviously great for the local enthusiasts.

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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by Harkins » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:57 am

RubyRoo wrote:Will Lossiemouth have space for 1, 2, 6, 29, 120, 201 and potentially another Typhoon squadron?

Strategically, it seems like far too many eggs in one basket, but obviously great for the local enthusiasts.
That's true, but perhaps not so great for some of the local residents with increased noise. I know this is an enthusiasts view, but I'd quite like the two new squadrons to have been formed at Leeming. I don't live near there, but a bit more spread of the jets is good for enthusiasts (not actually important) and for spreading the noise and maybe even the financial benefits to local communities.

I guess the biggest issue with my suggestion is that as the jets appear to be pooled these days, they probably do need to concentrate them. And these additional squadrons are being formed by donations from existing (shrinking) squadrons aren't they - rather than from new/additional aircraft?

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Re: UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two

Post by powerslave » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:02 am

Leeming would be a great place for two Typhoon sqns.
The place certainly needs it since loosing the F3's.

Ian

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