US 2015 Defence Proposal - U-2/A-10 Retirement

[TankBuster]

I noticed on the local news a couple of weeks ago that the USAF were looking at personnel reductions at Lakenheath & Mildenhall. I hope that isn't the start of bigger things to come

http://www.edp24.co.uk/mobile/news/us_a ... _1_3287750

TankBuster

[johnwayne]

Further to the various Fairford comments my take is that the main factor keeping Fairford available on short notice standby is its strategic role as a heavy bomber deployment base for Europe. Just because there hasn't been any recent B52/B1/B2 exercises doesn't mean the role isn't still valuable. Remember Kosovo ? Who's to say Ukraine might not 'kick off' ? No comparable alternative with suitable runway/hardstands and capacity available in European theatre . Moron possibly was but now too busy with other activity.

Less significant (IMO) factors that also help FFD are :-

1. U2 transits (agree with Mike B less satisfactory alternatives available with restrictions not applying at FFD, such as conflicting traffic - FFD is ideal)
2. Useful for USAF/NATO exercises and 'bare base' deployments.
3. RAF must regard FFD as a potentially useful 'bolthole' for Brize if latters runway unavailable , planned or otherwise.

So I'm optimistic both for FFD, and continued U2 ops , for many years to come.

[valiant]

Well according to page 414 in the afore mentioned proposal documents it details several options with associated costings for Lakenheath , one being closing and all 3 fighter squadrons relocating to the continental US along with all units from Mildenhall and it remaining open, not home and dry yet.

Edited in case anyone miss understood the point

[RichC]

The proposals on page 414 and onwards have four options. Close, Increase, Decrease or Stay as they are.
All four options for all the bases in the EUCOM theatre are under scrutiny. We have seen Spangdahlem change already.

[the concerned]

I was thinking of maybe a complete US withdrawal from Germany especially all combat units,with Afghanistan finishing the military hospital there would be hard pressed to justify its existence.

[Happy Camper]

i wouldn't be that surprised to an almost complete withdrawl of European based units - every dollar a member of 48TFW spends in the UK is a dollar thats just vanishing out of the US economy, and if they were to return home not only would the actual costs of the unit be reduced, the personal spending of the servicemen would go into the US economy instead of the UK economy, but the US Government would be employing American civilians instead of British civilians.

votes my boy, votes...

i don't doubt the US would wish to retain use of forward operating bases, but i would bet good money on them wanting the host nation to pay a much greater proportion of the care and maintainence costs.

people should be aware of quite how disollusioned the US defence/political establishment is with Europe - they see Europe as having sponged off the US for their own security while leaving the US on its own, and they simply don't see Europe as being a big deal with regards to their own security interests anymore...

[TankBuster]

I hope the USAF presence does remain in the UK, but I do fear that we may see some major changes amongst their UK based assets. It is possible that we may see a complete withdrawal of the 48th FW as those aircraft could easily be deployed to conflict zones around the world directly from US bases. At this time all options must be considered .


TankBuster

[welshandy]

This could all change as there is a Presidential election in 2016

If they do close they will have a negative impact on Suffolk in terms of employment and local economy

[wokka]

Does anyone know if the Global Hawk can be converted to have an optional piloted cockpit?

[Topol-M]

i wouldn't be that surprised to an almost complete withdrawl of European based units - every dollar a member of 48TFW spends in the UK is a dollar thats just vanishing out of the US economy, and if they were to return home not only would the actual costs of the unit be reduced, the personal spending of the servicemen would go into the US economy instead of the UK economy, but the US Government would be employing American civilians instead of British civilians.

votes my boy, votes...

i don't doubt the US would wish to retain use of forward operating bases, but i would bet good money on them wanting the host nation to pay a much greater proportion of the care and maintainence costs.

people should be aware of quite how disollusioned the US defence/political establishment is with Europe - they see Europe as having sponged off the US for their own security while leaving the US on its own, and they simply don't see Europe as being a big deal with regards to their own security interests anymore...

If 48FW goes it won't be to a new base, it will be to an existing one were the number of employed civilians will likely remain the same, I expect though that the squadron will be disbanded

The F15s will go into storage (or replace others that are older that get moved to storage), the crews will be spread amongst current F15 bases, transferred to other types or asked to leave if approaching that age

Maybe not a good vote option

[Topol-M]

Does anyone know if the Global Hawk can be converted to have an optional piloted cockpit?

No, most of the sensors take up the front with fuel tanks to the rear - unless the pilot is a smurf of course

Seriously though, the weight increase alone for seats, controls, life support wouldn't make it worth it

[one1938]

Whilst I too am worried about aircraft what about other assets such as Menwith Hill

[Happy Camper]

Whilst I too am worried about aircraft what about other assets such as Menwith Hill

probably far too valuable an asset to be under threat - also of course you can't just fly a Menwith Hill over the Atlantic when you need it in place... thats not the case with a load of F-15's.

having the boys - and their money - home is a vote winner. no one in the election cycle cares quite what will happen to this airframe or than crew, what matters is not only are less dollars being spent, but that those dollars are being spent in the US (swing states anyone?), on US contractors/workers, rather than on foreigners.

in think they will retain critical forward operating infrastructure overseas, but i can't see them maintaining 33,000 jobs in Europe just because it makes some F-15/F-16's 6 hours closer the Middle East...

[RichC]

Menwith Hill is a site for US National Security importance.

As can be seen on the news in the last few days, you never know when or where friction can kick off. NATO have held a meeting today over the Ukraine due to Russia beefing up 150,000 soldiers and thousands of vehicles and aircraft along its border. They are calling it an exercise but NATO have said they are monitoring the movements of the Russian forces.
This is exactly where the U-2S comes in, operating from Akrotiri.

[CH2]

Probably Sentinel as well.

[Gordyflyer]

Cutbacks at Menwith Hill http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-26357615

[Article (L)]

Does anyone know if the Global Hawk can be converted to have an optional piloted cockpit?

There would be no point as not having a pilot is the only thing the short sighted people can see as an advantage of the global hawk. Why put a pilot in a plane than can do a fraction of what the one he is already in can do? As for cost thats a figure that no one can calculate accurately and I think in most cases more than 2 global hawks are required to do what one U2 does and you can make cost figures read what you want them to do.

In my opinion recce missions are the one mission that should never have the pilot replaced, if for example an armed drone is captured it is simply an armed drone, but if its a recce aircraft the information on-board can be used as a political weapon or manufactured! there must be a pilot who can safe guard it. Recce pilots are a special type of person who know their responsibilities more than anyone. You can hack a computer far more easily than a pilot.

I think mike and Rich have said all the other relevant points. It is the most important aircraft the U.S have and I think most people know it, those that don't they need to learn it!

[Skywatcher]

Hi all
I totally agree with what everyone has said before,however I would just like to say ,I'm really not surprised about the u-2 retirement as I believe the original aircraft (U-2) was first flown in 1950 at area 51(of cause they don't say it was ),so I would say it's a good decision for the u-2 and time to call it a day, I am sad to see it go ,but I think the time has come to call it a day,as there has been a number of aircraft frequently going tech at ffd on transit so I think it's a good thing and the right time ,with the progression of recon UAVS such as the MQ-9 and the Global Hawk ,there is just better technology around theses days .i am surprised about the a-10 going however as what was the point then of the recent a-10C upgrade ,I thought that was too keep them in service for long time in the second part of this century.It is obvious that the USAF dislikes the a-10 unfortunately,and favours an all stealthy Air Force ,(f-22,JSF,B-2 and B-1 ) .
Sad times ,but inevitable ones
I'm going to miss the dragon lady
All the very best as always
Max

[Topol-M]

Hmmmm, age doesn't really matter, the U2 is still more capable than any UAV

You can't even put age down to it going tech either, take the 787 for instance, riddled with problems

And UAVs have gone a bit haywire too, losing contact with them and crashing (quite a few of them too) - for the type of mission the U2 carries out, there isn't anything else really, except for satellites maybe

Ironically though, UAVs are fantastic replacements for A10s

B-1 isn't that stealthy by the way - and if they wanted just stealth they'd have done everything in their powers to keep the F117 flying

[Skywatcher]

Hi
I know the b-1 isn't that stealthy,but it is more stealthy than the mighty buff
I had not really thought about the UAVS replacing the a-10s ,good idea that
Just letting thoughts out really and my opinion
(I think they call the b-1 semi stealthy by the way ,it's a 100th the size of a 52 on a radar screen )
All the very best as always
Max

P.s think the f-117s are technically in fly able storage )
So technically not compltly retired so too speak )