Globemaster tours ** i am a little confused**

[POL]

It's Greece, aircraft photography is illegal and punishable by rather a lengthy prison sentence!

To be honest, spotting is just as illegal so I'm imagining most of it will be done "covertly", hence the nervous disposition comment.

[Gary]

Slightly off topic.

With Greece's attitude to taking picture of aircraft it's going to make the tiger meet in 2013 fun

[wokka]

Perhaps its a single rather than a return flight? The cost is to be confirmed because bail terms may vary!

[Dave934]

The cost is to be confirmed because bail terms may vary!

Dave

[Avtur]

Being a bit of a Greekophile This event happens every year to celebrate the Archangel Michael who is the patron saint of the HAF. I know for a fact certain bases are open for 3 or 4 days every year around the first weekend in November...this is from the HAF website from last year:
"Like every year, the Air Force celebrates its patron Saint, Archangel Michael, by opening all air bases to the public from 5 to 8 November 2010"."Visitors will have the opportunity to see static and photographic exhibitions of aircraft, weapons and ground equipment".

As far as I know, photography is still forbidden at these events, so an organised tour should make that very clear from the outset. Having said that maybe a relaxation is taking place in the hope of attracting another revenue stream...given the dire economic state of Greece. I think caution should be the watchword at the moment

This is the HAF website, maybe an email to their PR department might be in order before making any firm commitments

http://www.haf.gr/en/contact.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[pikey01]

To be honest, spotting is just as illegal so I'm imagining most of it will be done "covertly", hence the nervous disposition comment.

Covertly and discreet is not in their vocabulary as Myself and MarkG found out it Turkey. That comment is clearly aimed at myself and a few others who were on that "tour" which to be quite honest was nothing but a joke. They changed the intinery with 5 hours notice, from spending a full day at the show to a a few hours at the show because "we want to log a starfighter on a stick 200 miles east" (no I'm not joking). When we complained we were met with "well what haven't you seen yet?" Not the point, we paid a lot of money to spend a full day at the show.

They were hanging around any base they could find in 4 people carriers, using spotting scopes and sbs openly when Turkey was on a run up to an election and on high alert for terrorism. I could list some of the stupid risks they took, but there's a lot to choose from. What they call "nervous disposition" I call common sense. We actually looked at flying back early, it was that uncomfortable.

I like Clive, and he certainly is passionate about the hobby, but the arrogance and stupid actions they pulled while we were away has put me off using them again or reconmending them. Clearly with a comment like that on the Greece trip they haven't learnt their lesson, so good luck to anyone going to Greece with them!

[RichC]

To me, the comment of "nervous disposition" stands out that they are on a mission to hang around some places the Greek government do not like spotters around. Irresponsible perhaps.
If someone feels nervous around an airfield in a foreign country, it is for a reason. If people go and are comfortable with doing it, even though they are in a place where they shouldn't be then if they get caught (like the touchdown tour did) then no sympathy.

From what you described, Graham, of the tour whilst there (live on facebook) it sounded like a right farce and disrespect to photographers who paid a lot of money to go on the tour.
Especially when Ian Allen were putting up the same airshow tour for a bit more money but they flew direct to Izmir apparently instead of the hours upon hours of driving from Istanbul. (Which is a farce in itself).
And the fact that you commented several times when travelling the spotters were taking risks on the way stopping at places they shouldn't have been.
Turkey and Greece are places you can't fool around, even on tours. And if a tour operator has that sentence in the description then i would stay well clear. Otherwise you might end up in a similar position to Touchdown tours and in court.
Greece and Turkey, although having spotting days at airbases do not share the same view as most of northern Europe in regards to "spotting" and writing down numbers.

Each to their own i suppose but going by Graham and Marks experience, i'd stay well clear. Unless of course you're a die hard spotter.

[Thunder]

These open days in Greece as stated above are to celebrate their patron saint and are open to the public. Over the last 5-7 years I have seen numerous photo reports from such events and have heard from several people that have visited these events that photography is allowed of the exhibits that are on show. When you start roaming around the base looking for that elusive F16 then your in trouble, especially if you can't speak Greek or know the local laws.

From what pikey01 has said above I would seriously re consider going with this company. I was on an organised tour of the West Coast USA a few years ago and the risks that some of my fellow travellers where taking were shocking, the worst thing about it was these people were the tour organisers and you had no choice but to go along with it.

It might be worth looking at doing this trip on your own or with a couple of friends then you know what your travelling with.

[POL]

Unless of course you're a die hard spotter.

As a die hard spotter, can I recommend people stay well clear anyway?!

[urkles]

If you wish to do this trip may I recommend getting, say, 3 like minded enthusiasts as yourself, and organising it yourself? You get to do what you want, its more enjoyable and costs about half as much. It really is worth doing this approach, its what we at the BCWM do and very succesful it has been too. It does take more bother I agree, but its worth it.

Alternatively, maybe members on here can get together to organise a trip, there must be a few of you wanting to go, but are reluctant due to costs or you dont have anyone else to go with. Maybe something the mods could have put on here is a trips section - where someone expresses a wish to go somewhere and see if anyone is interested in going with them. You will only need 3 or 4 then you have saved on fuel and hire car at the destination and made some good contacts for future trips. Just an idea

Not naming names, but alot of these organised trips are a way of the organiser and a few of his mates getting a free trip, and seeing only what they want. With the internet so easy to use now then getting flights and hotels are a doddle and it really is a lot cheaper. Recommend somenoe has a sat nav though

[Thunder]

alot of these organised trips are a way of the organiser and a few of his mates getting a free trip, and seeing only what they want.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

[MarkG]

Firstly I totally agree with everything Pikey has said.

... the risks that some of my fellow travellers where taking were shocking, the worst thing about it was these people were the tour organisers and you had no choice but to go along with it...

This is exactly the problem we were faced with Scott.

The risks our group took were shocking as well, not only that, they showed a blatant disrespect for the Turkish Air Force after they were good enough to hold a FREE airshow with the only condition being 'Please don't visit or photograph any of our other air bases'
We had our number plate taken several times by the Turkish AF and Police, the locals were even phoning the Police on their mobiles because we were hanging around next to air bases, made worse by the fact that our gang were all wandering around with spotting scopes.
The museums we visited were great, but we were allowed barely enough time to get round (or in reality, enough time for everyone else to jot their numbers down) before we were off searching for more F-104's on poles or other relics.

Considering this tour was billed as '..Three or four museums, spotters day friday and a FULL day for saturday show day..' I'd been looking forward to this since its announcement and a show which should've been the highlight of the places I've visited, has left me trying my best to forget it, thanks to the selfish attitude and thoughtless arrogance of our tour group.

One example: after we were pulled by security at one air base, the attitude was "We'll just tell them we're lost tourists, they won't mind.."
Yeah thats just great when there are four loaded Vito's, everyone with telescopes/cameras and one of our lot with a laptop..

I know i'm not alone when I say this, but it was a bad experience, and one which was enough to put me off this hobby.

Never again.

Having said all that, we have been on a couple of Tiger Meet tours with Globemaster and they were great..! But for anyone thinking of going on the Greek tour, be warned.. I'm sure the Greek Police/Air Force will love you!

[norm3392]

Can't comment on Clive (I don't know him) or Globemaster (never been with them), however I have been to Greece and generally enjoyed the whole thing.
Four of us, flew to the north, picked up a hire car and started travelling south. 95% of bases allowed photography, of their static operational aircraft. Some allowed static park a/c to be photographed as well. One base absolutely refused despite HAF PR stating all bases were open and photography was permitted. Generally operational aircraft were not in scope, although we obtained permission to photograph some of the gate guards. Where this permission was obtained the guards at the gates had been told to expect us and we encountered no problems. Permission to do additional photography on the day generally fails. We were requested not to photograph a particular aircraft on one base, complied with the request and got taken to another taxiway as a bit of a bonus.
I had no real issues with a camera. Access may require you to surrender your passport at the entry gate. All the guards were very friendly as were the vast majority of base personnel.
Comment was made about "number crunchers", we didn't write down serial numbers on the bases and compiled lists from photographs. If you park outside a base and the sign says "No photography or stopping", then I think the sign speaks for it's self!
Petrol stations in the rural parts are not some plentiful and we refuelled every time the gauge read half, all hotels were pre-booked.
With a bit of planning and active co-operation plus some good old fashioned courtesy, we had a cracking 5 days and got lots of results.
Importantly we shared the total between four of us and it was the cheapest I've achieved a tip that we organised ourselves.
Hope this helps if you're thinking of going. Norm

[dubmasteruk]

Having travelled with Clive and Globemaster on many occasions, I think the comments are being taken seriously.

Knowing Clives sense of humour and the fact that a few of the ex Touchdown Greekspotters now are customers of Globemaster it is just a bit of humour..thats all.

Maybe not the correct thing to do to impress new customers..granted.

[Thunder]

norm3992, are you able to divulge what bases you had your experiences at ie: what base refused photography and what a/c were you told not to photograph, as it may help others that are planning trips to Greece(including me) and keep them on the straight and narrow.

[roughcutter]

Having travelled with Clive and Globemaster on many occasions, I think the comments are being taken seriously.

Knowing Clives sense of humour and the fact that a few of the ex Touchdown Greekspotters now are customers of Globemaster it is just a bit of humour..thats all.

Maybe not the correct thing to do to impress new customers..granted.

I too have enjoyed many trips with Clive on and off over the last twelve years, some of which have been fantastic (and occasionally not so... )
As an aside from the subject of trips to Greece (and Turkey), just talking generally. Most new comers to this hobby tend to view spotting trips through rose tinted specs. They see on the forums the wonderful pictures put up by returning travellers, of exciting aircraft shot in exotic locations, wall to wall blue skies and glorious sunshine, happy smiling faces etc.. They hear accounts of ramp tours, museums, airshows and what was encountered there and so on.
But when they take the plunge embarking on of these tours themselves, it never quite turns out the way it was anticipated. Still enjoyable but not quite the way the trip was envisaged.
The important fact that people need to grasp before deciding to travel, is that Spotting trips are organised by Spotters....for Spotters! Everything else takes second place! And that doesn't go just for Globemaster either, most of the tour groups do it. The priority of a spotting trip no matter where or how far spotters travel, is to cram in as many sitings as is humanly possible in the short time that they are away. That means, doing whistlestop visits to museums, very short stops at airshows, over the fence snoops at airbases (and occasionally if you're lucky in these post 9/11 days, a possible ramp/hangar tour if you know the right contact.). Time is of the essence on these trips, so garage stops for your eats in the day, dinner at Denny's and then exhausted falling into your pit at the Ibis/Motel6 after 10pm and up again at 6 (or 5!).
Lots and lots of miles, rush, rush, rush!
Personally I don't spot, more into the photography myself. But still travel with Clive, I take a more philosophical attitude to his trips, I like the guy, have come to know most of his regular crew and count many of them amongst my friends. I enjoy the "crack" on the journeys, and occasionally get lucky with some great photo opportunities.
However, I do feel that Clive as well as the other spotter groups will need to clarify their agenda's for the sake of any future customers.
Just my opinion.
MarkL

[pikey01]

[However, I do feel that Clive as well as the other spotter groups will need to clarify their agenda's for the sake of any future customers.

This was my biggest issue with the Turkey trip, we payed for a full day at the show on the saturday, only to find out on the friday night no we arent anymore. Made worse because the reason we werent, was to see a starfighter on a stick and hang round fencelines. I can understand wanting to see as much as possible, but i'd rather take a little time to enjoy it. As Steve said to me on the flight back, its about finding a tour group that offers what you want, and for me Globemaster isnt it.

[roughcutter]

As Steve said to me on the flight back, its about finding a tour group that offers what you want, and for me Globemaster isnt it.

Sadly Graham I have to concur with you on that one. It came as no real surprise to me when we left Cigli early on the Saturday (actually I was more pee'd off when Friday afternoon was wasted, waiting down the back lanes for distant tail numbers when we could used that time at the end of the runway watching the rest of the arrivals - which included the Jordanian F-16's! ), hey ho.
The trouble is, I have no real choice in the matter. For me it's either pay through the nose travelling with with Ian Allan, BAES etc... or chance my arm with Globemaster (whom I know and can afford). Urkles and his like minded mates have the ideal setup, going under their own steam and splitting the costs & driving.
Unfortunately for me most of my mates are either married or unemployed, so like I've mentioned earlier I'm phylosophical about travelling with Globemaster and tend these days to "go with the flow". They do come up with the goods now and then.

[pikey01]

Your more than welcome to travel with us anytime Mark, i'll buy you another Efis beer Anyway, looks like Ian Allan might have secured base visits in Turkey next year....if that happens, im there no matter the cost

[roughcutter]

Nice one mate! I'll certainly bare that in mind
Mark