Air Supremacy

[septic]

I was wondering to myself that now the coalition have air superiority (at least) or even supremacy, will it be the next stage to deploy attack helos and even AC130'S. With their advanced IR imaging etc, surely that is the best way to deal with the snipers that are causing so many casualties ? just a thought.

Septic

[alchemist2001]

I was just thinking the same thing and was on my way to ask a similar question when I saw your thread! That's what I'd be doing, now that they have air superiority, the obvious next step would be to have a load of Apache's police the area with a few Spooky's in place also. Surely that'd provide better CAS than fast jets?

[Trenchard]

Surely using AH64/AC130 in that way would run contrary to the United Nations mandate contained in Resolution 1973 which is for a no fly zone, not a free for all helping anyone who doesn't like Ghadafi?

[alchemist2001]

Resolution 1973, as I understand it, allows for any force necessary, save for troops on the ground, to enforce the protection of civilians.

[page_verify]

The Resolution goes beyond providing a no-fly zone, it states "to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi". You can protect civilians against tanks and large numbers of ground forces from the air, however firing at specific snipers from the air could be considered illegal.

[Trenchard]

Hmmm I can see a minefield for anyone trying to use the resolution to put choppers in theatre. I believe that Arab neighbours might take that as a step to close to an invasion to allow it to happen.

All necessary measures is a big statement but not that wide that it goes, in my opinion, to taking out individual snipers, if it does we've just become the oppositions air arm in Libya.

Therefore I expect the Prime Minister will announce cuts as soon as possible, as it is clearly costing to much

[TankBuster]

Send in the A-10's. Let them sort the snipers out .

TankBuster

[Thunder]

Resolution 1973, as I understand it, allows for any force necessary, save for troops on the ground, to enforce the protection of civilians.

Exactly civilians, do armed Rebels come under that heading? In all fairness if an armed bunch of men want to overthrow a Goverment then they must face what ever force that Goverment want to put up to resist such an attack against it. As for the protection of innocent civilians thats a diferent story but where do you draw the line between the two?

[septic]

Hmm I seem to have caused a little worm type can opener here!! my take on it is that using Apaches or similar might act as more of a deterrent if used on a "patrol and hit targets of opportunity" basis. I agree with Alchemist re the terms of UN1973.

Any way it was just my own thoughts, I'm no general !!

[septic]

Hmmm I can see a minefield for anyone trying to use the resolution to put choppers in theatre. I believe that Arab neighbours might take that as a step to close to an invasion to allow it to happen.

All necessary measures is a big statement but not that wide that it goes, in my opinion, to taking out individual snipers, if it does we've just become the oppositions air arm in Libya.

Therefore I expect the Prime Minister will announce cuts as soon as possible, as it is clearly costing to much

Well Arab neigbours were clammering for a no fly zone, so really they would have little cause to complain! why are they not helping out as promised ??

[PDA1234]

Ok I'm no diplomat, but frankly some posts on here confuse me with their diplomatic intelligence like septic.

[septic]

Ok I'm no diplomat, but frankly some posts on here confuse me with their diplomatic intelligence like septic.

Like I said, just my thoughts, ok Qatar have sent a couple of Mirages in I'll give them that!!
Anyway we aren't all experts PDA !!

[ndfilter]

I'm very simple minded about the whole thing. NATO/UN have in the last week prevented an appalling bloodbath and massacre, it's wonderful, well done to all involved from the top down. From now on it all starts to get a bit complicated but we could all be sitting here watching the most awful news reports this week about mass graves and thinking "if only we'd done something".
So I'm happy for the poor Libyans who want the freedom we enjoy.

[septic]

I'm very simple minded about the whole thing. NATO/UN have in the last week prevented an appalling bloodbath and massacre, it's wonderful, well done to all involved from the top down. From now on it all starts to get a bit complicated but we could all be sitting here watching the most awful news reports this week about mass graves and thinking "if only we'd done something".
So I'm happy for the poor Libyans who want the freedom we enjoy.

In a nutshell !!

[alchemist2001]

Exactly civilians, do armed Rebels come under that heading? In all fairness if an armed bunch of men want to overthrow a Goverment then they must face what ever force that Goverment want to put up to resist such an attack against it. As for the protection of innocent civilians thats a diferent story but where do you draw the line between the two?

In February, civilans took the street in Libya to protest the current regime. They protested peacefully in an unarmed manner. Gadhaffi responded by sending a bunch of mercenaries into their midst (wearing yellow hard hats - presumably as a form of rudimentary IFF) to beat and kill the protestors. Panorama had an extensive report on this in the last few days.

If I was in that situation I'd arm myself henceforth in any manner I could. Gadhaffi is a lunatic and those who oppose him are carrying weapons because to attempt to do so without them has been proven to be tantamount to suicide.

[Thunder]

Exactly civilians, do armed Rebels come under that heading? In all fairness if an armed bunch of men want to overthrow a Goverment then they must face what ever force that Goverment want to put up to resist such an attack against it. As for the protection of innocent civilians thats a diferent story but where do you draw the line between the two?

In February, civilans took the street in Libya to protest the current regime. They protested peacefully in an unarmed manner. Gadhaffi responded by sending a bunch of mercenaries into their midst (wearing yellow hard hats - presumably as a form of rudimentary IFF) to beat and kill the protestors. Panorama had an extensive report on this in the last few days.

If I was in that situation I'd arm myself henceforth in any manner I could. Gadhaffi is a lunatic and those who oppose him are carrying weapons because to attempt to do so without them has been proven to be tantamount to suicide.

I hear what you're saying and I can't blame them either but being an armed civilian going about your normal daily business is different from a Rebel intent in killing Gadhaffi loyalists in order to overthrow his regime. Yes I'm as eager as most to see the back of Gadhaffi, but are we there to protect civilians or back the Rebels, because it's starting to look like the latter which is in violation of the UN mandate, Ask yourself this, if a group of Gadhaffi supporters were cornered by Rebels in tanks and armed men, would the coalition bomb the Rebels ????

If the UN think they can do this from the air alone they are very much mistaken.

[septic]

Well from todays news reports, seems my question has been answered ! anyway thanks for the comments and so on.

Septic