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White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Mon May 12, 2025 9:05 am
by Wrightc41
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Mon May 12, 2025 9:12 am
by STN RAMP RAT
I am not sure how it would work as it would require the sort of "facilities" to be installed that are currently delaying the two VC25B's. I am not sure the current white house team understand that.
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Mon May 12, 2025 10:38 am
by Kurnass
STN RAMP RAT wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 9:12 am
I am not sure how it would work as it would require the sort of "facilities" to be installed that are currently delaying the two VC25B's. I am not sure the current white house team understand that.
It was said it would be an Air Force One with less systems on board, just for transport within the USA.
A perfect plane for his visits to Mar-A-Lago.
For international transport the old VC-25’s would still be used
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Mon May 12, 2025 2:17 pm
by Malcolm
Kurnass wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 10:38 am
STN RAMP RAT wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 9:12 am
I am not sure how it would work as it would require the sort of "facilities" to be installed that are currently delaying the two VC25B's. I am not sure the current white house team understand that.
It was said it would be an Air Force One with less systems on board, just for transport within the USA.
A perfect plane for his visits to Mar-A-Lago.
For international transport the old VC-25’s would still be used
I can't see the secret service or chiefs of staff allowing it. You only have to look at the reaction to the 9-11 attacks when Bush was rushed to AF1, and then the difficulties they had communicating with the chain of command. If Trump were travelling in Qatar Force 1 when something 'kicked off' they would be in a right pickle. There would have to be a real VC-25 close by on the ground anyway for much the same reason. Spending a shed load of money to install minimum secure comms on the Qatari jet when it'll only be being used for 3 years before being retired to the presidential library sounds like the sort of waste that DOGE should be all over.
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Mon May 12, 2025 4:42 pm
by T_J
Malcolm wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 2:17 pm
Kurnass wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 10:38 am
It was said it would be an Air Force One with less systems on board, just for transport within the USA.
A perfect plane for his visits to Mar-A-Lago.
For international transport the old VC-25’s would still be used
I can't see the secret service or chiefs of staff allowing it. You only have to look at the reaction to the 9-11 attacks when Bush was rushed to AF1, and then the difficulties they had communicating with the chain of command. If Trump were travelling in Qatar Force 1 when something 'kicked off' they would be in a right pickle. There would have to be a real VC-25 close by on the ground anyway for much the same reason. Spending a shed load of money to install minimum secure comms on the Qatari jet when it'll only be being used for 3 years before being retired to the presidential library sounds like the sort of waste that DOGE should be all over.
It is scheduled to enter service no later than 1st January, 2029. It will likely take this time for the aircraft to be equipped and tested. The Trump paint scheme with the dark undersides was rejected during Biden's term. It was claimed that the darker paint scheme would take time to test due to possible overheating problems with comms and defensive aids equipment.
This is all about Trump's ego and his desperation to fly in an Air Force One aircraft with his chosen colour scheme. Everyone will bend over backwards to make it a reality even if he only flies in it as President in the last month of his term.
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Mon May 12, 2025 5:07 pm
by sschofield
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this will never happen. Quite possibly the jet will arrive in the US from Qatar, maybe even quite soon, but I can see it ending up sitting in storage at Dayton for weeks, months and then years whilst there are arguments about the feasibility of kitting it out to an acceptable standard (as others have said, it needs secure, nuclear-survivable comms equipment which will take a lot of time, and even more money to install).
Plus of course, our dear Mr Trump isn't getting any younger, nor any healthier. Tick tock...
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Tue May 13, 2025 3:31 pm
by Doughnut
If the Qatari B747 was only to be used within CONUS, ie shuttling Trump and this entourage from Washington to Florida, it would not require the same high level systems.
Doing this will greatly reduce the usage/flight hours on the old VC-25. Other Presidents have used smaller aircraft and helicopters within USA for many years.
By using a "free gifted" VVIP B747, Trump gets to travel like a King/Prince and he can have the jet painted in Trump Town One colours.
When the new VC-25's are ready he will be out of office.
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Tue May 13, 2025 7:24 pm
by Jazz
sschofield wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 5:07 pm
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this will never happen. Quite possibly the jet will arrive in the US from Qatar, maybe even quite soon, but I can see it ending up sitting in storage at Dayton for weeks, months and then years whilst there are arguments about the feasibility of kitting it out to an acceptable standard (as others have said, it needs secure, nuclear-survivable comms equipment which will take a lot of time, and even more money to install).
Plus of course, our dear Mr Trump isn't getting any younger, nor any healthier. Tick tock...
Good grief, yet another cringeworthy thread, full of tiktok like knowledge, intelligence and (of course) TDS LOL.
The jet is already in the US, re-registered and parked at KSAT for a while now, no longer operated by the Qataris.
As POTUS said, the Qataris are gifting it to the DoD. Its colour scheme certainly isn't decided by the Biden regime term (LOL) and who said its only for use within CONUS?!
As for "There would have to be a real VC-25 close by on the ground anyway, if anything kicked off"?! A VC-25A is not a NEACP.
Especially if overseas, if the 'kick off' was bad enough, an E-4B would become AF1 (as its designed to) after POTUS is flown to it in the quickest way, perhaps by C-32A 'escape jet' (as some call it).
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Tue May 13, 2025 8:02 pm
by Malcolm
Jazz wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 7:24 pm
As for "There would have to be a real VC-25 close by on the ground anyway, if anything kicked off"?! A VC-25A is not a NEACP.
Especially if overseas, if the 'kick off' was bad enough, an E-4B would become AF1 (as its designed to) after POTUS is flown to it in the quickest way, perhaps by C-32A 'escape jet' (as some call it).
I disagree with this analysis of the SOP's.
The E4B is rarely close enough to POTUS for it to be any use in an emergency - it's often in a different country, and 2 or more hours away. The VC-25's do contain a shed load of secure comms stuff that allow POTUS to communicate with the chain of command - agreed not as much as an E-4 but sufficient to communicate with the pentagon, NORAD, SECDEF, the E-4, and various other command agencies. The Qatari jet will not contain any of that, and I can't see the USAF justifying spending money on the jet to install it.
The transcripts of the AF-1 mission after the 9-11 attacks show you what the VC-25 is expected to do. They had trouble because there were not enough comms kits on the VC-25 to talk to everyone they wanted/needed to. This subsequently resulted in many upgrades to the VC-25. And that was all within CONUS.
There is a reason the two new VC-25B's are costing billions to modify. And it's not to do with gold plated toilets etc.
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Tue May 13, 2025 9:34 pm
by Jazz
Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 8:02 pm
Jazz wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 7:24 pm
As for "There would have to be a real VC-25 close by on the ground anyway, if anything kicked off"?! A VC-25A is not a NEACP.
Especially if overseas, if the 'kick off' was bad enough, an E-4B would become AF1 (as its designed to) after POTUS is flown to it in the quickest way, perhaps by C-32A 'escape jet' (as some call it).
I disagree with this analysis of the SOP's.
The E4B is rarely close enough to POTUS for it to be any use in an emergency - it's often in a different country, and 2 or more hours away. The VC-25's do contain a shed load of secure comms stuff that allow POTUS to communicate with the chain of command - agreed not as much as an E-4 but sufficient to communicate with the pentagon, NORAD, SECDEF, the E-4, and various other command agencies. The Qatari jet will not contain any of that, and I can't see the USAF justifying spending money on the jet to install it.
The transcripts of the AF-1 mission after the 9-11 attacks show you what the VC-25 is expected to do. They had trouble because there were not enough comms kits on the VC-25 to talk to everyone they wanted/needed to. This subsequently resulted in many upgrades to the VC-25. And that was all within CONUS.
There is a reason the two new VC-25B's are costing billions to modify. And it's not to do with gold plated toilets etc.
The E-4B currently on POTUS support is detached at LGSA. Its location is carefully chosen so it IS "close enough" to be within operational range for its specific POTUS NEACP role. If not, why is it there, if the VC-25A 'will do'?!
The cost of the new VC-25Bs (even plus the former Qatar 747-8 mods up to spec) is nothing compared to the new fleet of E-4C SAOCs. But do you imply that they are not really needed, as the new VC-25Bs mods will fulfil all that POTUS needs in an emergency? Well, apart from AR. Really?! If so you could have a great role with DOGE, cancelling those superfluous E-4Cs LOL.
The USAF will not decide if 'HBJ's mods are cost-justified, but rather the DoD/SecDef who they are subordinate to. Of course, in the end it may not happen, we'll see. In the meantime we can revel in the tabloid like 'reporting', sensational claims and TDS-like reactions LOL.
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Wed May 14, 2025 8:41 am
by Malcolm
Jazz wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 9:34 pm
The E-4B currently on POTUS support is detached at LGSA. Its location is carefully chosen so it IS "close enough" to be within operational range for its specific POTUS NEACP role. If not, why is it there, if the VC-25A 'will do'?!
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the role of the E-4 is completely different to the role of the VC-25, which is why POTUS never* flies on one, and why the E-4 is kept apart from POTUS both on the ground and in the air. SECDEF does regularly fly on an E-4.
Souda Bay is several hours from Saudi/Qatar/UAE. If something kicked off, it would not remain on the ground for several hours at Souda waiting for POTUS to arrive in the "escape jet". It would be in the air within minutes. If Trump were in "Qatar Force 1" he would not have the connectivity available in a VC-25, or a C-32A for that matter.
*For all reasonable interpretations of the word "never".
Re: White House and Qatar discuss transfer of luxury jet for Air Force One
Posted: Wed May 21, 2025 8:11 pm
by STN RAMP RAT
US accepts gifted Qatari plane to join Air Force One fleet
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq855lx87z3o
So they accepted the gift, let’s see if it ever goes into service.