FighterControl

Reported in the last few days is that the Tempest technology demonstrater aircraft is now in production with wings and fuselage in progress. This is a one off technology demo prototype.. guess similar to the pre Typhoon EAP?


https://www.aero-mag.com/manufacturing- ... tor-begins

Can someone enlighten me to what the difference is between Tempest/GCAP?

The way I understood it was that Tempest is/was a sovereign British design, but the programme has "merged" into a new GCAP project (involving Italy and Japan) and will now be a joint aircraft design.

So in the article that Alf has posted, is the design they're going with the original British design or something that has taken into account input from the Japanese and Italians?

The news about the Tempest demonstrator was released at Farnborough. The demonstrator aircraft is a UK-only project basically confirming that all the investments made in the last few years can work together to produce a new clean-sheet combat aircraft, in a similar way that EAP was to the Eurofighter. In the same way, the lessons/experience learnt from that effort, will feed into the tri-national Global Combat Air Program with Italy and Japan, which aims to deliver an initial capability - call it Case White - in the mid-2030s and replace Typhoons from 2040 onwards. The design of the demonstrator will be similar to the final GCAP, but smaller because it is powered by two EJ200s, so around one-third of the power or less than the proposed GCAP aircraft. We are yet to see the final configuration of the demonstrator or indeed GCAP.

Thanks for the answer, Tony. No like button functionality, but you earned one.

The mock-up at Farnborough certainly seems like quite a large aircraft!

The mock-up at Farnborough certainly seems like quite a large aircraft!

Think F-111, Mirage IV or Vigilante and you are in the right ball park, I just hope the RAF's HASes are large enough for it.

Thanks for the answer, Tony. No like button functionality, but you earned one.

The mock-up at Farnborough certainly seems like quite a large aircraft!

Cheers from me too. Bit of a beast it’ll be then!

Perhaps they should have called it TSR3...?

It crossed my mind too seahorses and who knows the views of the new political regime?

Any idea of the cost? How many will be bought with our limited national wealth?

C24 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:56 pm

It crossed my mind too seahorses and who knows the views of the new political regime?

Any idea of the cost? How many will be bought with our limited national wealth?

Its a proof of concept test airframe like the EAP was forerunner of Typhoon. So in short that is a one off airframe....
As for Tempest who knows how many they will order as its a long way off till that is likely to be decided ie at least 10 years

Set to fly in 3 years! That doesn't seem far away. Would it be doing the display circuit straight away or would it be limited to test flight for a couple of years before shows like RIAT and Farnborough?

As already mentioned in previous posts this is not Tempest, it’s a one off test aircraft to demonstrate the new technology to be used in Tempest. Tempest first flight is many years away. If it’s like EAP in the 1980’s then it’s flying career could be quite limited and short and end once the test flights are complete. EAP first flew in 1986 and was retired in 1991.

I understand, but love to see progression. Having had a few years now of seeing the Tempest static model the last few years and the reports the project itself could be fully cancelled its great to see the tech moving towards getting in the air

Biggsy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:58 am

Set to fly in 3 years! That doesn't seem far away. Would it be doing the display circuit straight away or would it be limited to test flight for a couple of years before shows like RIAT and Farnborough?

It's a prototype, a one off, a test aircraft, it will be capturing data and expanding the envelope with every flight. It's purpose is not to display to Mr and Mrs Smith at airshows! It will not be doing the display circuit, it may perhaps make an appearance at a future Farnborough.

C24 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:56 pm

It crossed my mind too seahorses and who knows the views of the new political regime?

I think you'll find that in the multi-£Billion Tempest programme, the actual name and designation is not that high up the list!, versus capability and cost, rest assured there won't be packed government committees pondering over this aspect!

C24 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 12, 2024 6:56 pm

It crossed my mind too seahorses and who knows the views of the new political regime?

Any idea of the cost? How many will be bought with our limited national wealth?

So far the UK has spent £2-3 billion on technology maturation projects, initiatives to develop technologies for the GCAP, you do that early before you develop the fighter aircraft. Full-scale development of GCAP is expected to cost around £14 billion for the UK, a total of €45 billion between the three countries, was the last figure I heard. If they can keep development on track without delays, it is possible, the challenge will be avoiding political wrangling, workshare arguments, etc, but a lot of that is being resolved now before they go on contract around this time next year. Of course this assumes the Strategic Defence Review doesn't bite the project on the behind.

Agent K wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 13, 2024 7:48 am

Biggsy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:58 am

Set to fly in 3 years! That doesn't seem far away. Would it be doing the display circuit straight away or would it be limited to test flight for a couple of years before shows like RIAT and Farnborough?

It's a prototype, a one off, a test aircraft, it will be capturing data and expanding the envelope with every flight. It's purpose is not to display to Mr and Mrs Smith at airshows! It will not be doing the display circuit, it may perhaps make an appearance at a future Farnborough.

I saw the EAP demonstrator display at least once, definitely at the Red Arrows 25th anniversary show at Scampton, maybe Farnborough? I remember thinking at the time it was really unimpressive and wondered what all the fuss was about.

Sparts99 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 13, 2024 9:29 am

I saw the EAP demonstrator display at least once, definitely at the Red Arrows 25th anniversary show at Scampton, maybe Farnborough? I remember thinking at the time it was really unimpressive and wondered what all the fuss was about.

Yes I saw it at Farnborough, and if I recall was quite impressed! don't know if it was too much of my hosts champagne in the chalet, or perhaps having seen too many F104's and Tornados, it seemed quite nimble in comparison!

As I say, if anywhere, Tempest will undoubtedly be present at Farnborough, being one of the worlds leading trade shows, but not I suspect (as a previous contributor suggests) doing the display circuit.