RAF Leeming to house joint RAF/QEAF Hawk Squadron

[Red Dragon]

Wouldn’t it be more efficient to move the RAF Hawk T2’s also to Leeming and have the Hawk training fleet concentrated at one base? Keeping Leeming open for just 9 Hawks seems to be a bit of an overkill?

Far more logical to have the Qatari's based at Valley as all the fleet maintenance is there. However the MoD beancounters make the final decisions it seems not the RAF.

[Kurnass]

Wouldn’t it be more efficient to move the RAF Hawk T2’s also to Leeming and have the Hawk training fleet concentrated at one base? Keeping Leeming open for just 9 Hawks seems to be a bit of an overkill?

Leeming has many non flying RAF units based.. it's actually very busy.

Didn’t know that. So I learned something today, thanks

[Agent K]

Wouldn’t it be more efficient to move the RAF Hawk T2’s also to Leeming and have the Hawk training fleet concentrated at one base? Keeping Leeming open for just 9 Hawks seems to be a bit of an overkill?

If it was be purely about that you’d move the 9 Hawks to join the 28 at Valley rather than the other way round, surely?! I wouldn’t call your statement efficient!

Google Leeming and you’ll see there’s far more to it than just the current hawk operation.

[Reach1985]

Great! Let’s get further into bed with a country that still thinks lashing & stoning are suitable forms of punishment. & I’m sure this is only the tip of the ice burg.

Honestly why can’t we as a country try & a line ourselves with something even vaguely positive in the world???

If the Quataris want eurofighters & hawks let em have em. I don’t care. But why can’t we just ship em there & leave them??? Send them a manual or two (in translation) & I’m sure they can do the rest.

[Kurnass]

“:lol: If it was be purely about that you’d move the 9 Hawks to join the 28 at Valley rather than the other way round, surely?! I wouldn’t call your statement efficient!”

I know Valley has many more Hawks than Leeming will get. But my point was that it seems a bit senseless to base only 9 Hawks there (I know now there are many more non-flying units based there)

[Agent K]

If it was be purely about that you’d move the 9 Hawks to join the 28 at Valley rather than the other way round, surely?! I wouldn’t call your statement efficient!
[/quote]

I know Valley has many more Hawks than Leeming will get. But my point was that it seems a bit senseless to base only 9 Hawks there (I know now there are many more non-flying units based there)
[/quote]

Understand, yes it’s a surprisingly busy and important base.

[Mike]

I think it's about time someone posted a guide on how to use the forum's 'Quote' function.

[Agent K]

Great! Let’s get further into bed with a country that still thinks lashing & stoning are suitable forms of punishment. & I’m sure this is only the tip of the ice burg.

Honestly why can’t we as a country try & a line ourselves with something even vaguely positive in the world???

If the Quataris want eurofighters & hawks let em have em. I don’t care. But why can’t we just ship em there & leave them??? Send them a manual or two (in translation) & I’m sure they can do the rest.

I do think it’s far better to have strong relationships with these countries and exert soft power and influence, than do what you suggest. Always a challenge though to balance what’s good for the nation, for the defence industry, for foreign policy and influence etc.

As for aligning ourselves with something positive, we were for many years, but short sighted, self serving and less than truthful individuals sought an end to that.

[FergiZA600]

The Qatari Emiri Air Force had no interest in Valley its as simple as that, the decision was made on the 23.10.20 when 3 RAF Hawk T2's brought Qatari pilots over from Warton. I got told they prefer the airspace around Leeming, plus its only a short trip from Leeming to Coningsby for the pilots to move on to the Typhoon. Leeming have already carried out maintenance on the T2's to get ready for the arrival of the x9 Qatari Ones.

[Mike]

The Qatari Emiri Air Force had no interest in Valley its as simple as that, the decision was made on the 23.10.20 when 3 RAF Hawk T2's brought Qatari piolets over from Warton. I got told they prefer the airspace around Leeming, plus its only a short trip from Leeming to Coningsby for the piolets to move on to the Typhoon. Leeming have already carried out maintenance on the T2's to get ready for the arrival of the x9 Qatari Ones.

Do you mean 'pilots' as a 'piolet' is a kind of ice axe?

[Finty]

Great! Let’s get further into bed with a country that still thinks lashing & stoning are suitable forms of punishment. & I’m sure this is only the tip of the ice burg.

Honestly why can’t we as a country try & a line ourselves with something even vaguely positive in the world???

Nothing is black white. We got into bed with the USA during the second world war, a country with segregated armed forces until 1948 and Jim Crow laws until 1965. Not as bad as stoning perhaps but just shows how everyone has dirt on their names.

[Nighthawke]

In these situations money talks louder than moral issues. I'm not condoning it just making an observation. Historically England/Britain is far from purity. Anyway we've gone quite off topic so best not dwell on the humanitarian aspect.

[toom317]

Nothing is black white. We got into bed with the USA during the second world war, a country with segregated armed forces until 1948 and Jim Crow laws until 1965. Not as bad as stoning perhaps but just shows how everyone has dirt on their names.

I think you'll find the USA got into bed with us for WWII. We were already at war for a few years before they got into it. Same for WWI.

[sschofield]

I think it's about time someone posted a guide on how to use the forum's 'Quote' function.

Can I quote you on that?

[Finty]

Nothing is black white. We got into bed with the USA during the second world war, a country with segregated armed forces until 1948 and Jim Crow laws until 1965. Not as bad as stoning perhaps but just shows how everyone has dirt on their names.

I think you'll find the USA got into bed with us for WWII. We were already at war for a few years before they got into it. Same for WWI.

I'm aware of that, we've all heard of Pearl Harbour. This is just nitpicking though, my point still stands regarding morals and how pragmatism comes first in such situations. After all, many Americans didn't like the British Empire.

Anyway this is still off topic. I don't really care what happens, as long as we see some different coloured Hawks in the Mach loop.

[Vulture 01]

Surely by spreading your orders around like this, no one company can hold you over a barrel at some point?
Plus all the aircraft have subtly different capabilities as well.

[teeonefixer]

It's not a Hawk TMk.2 it's a Mk.167 ! 100 Sqn is going for a couple of years yet and I can only guess the 2 operations will be quite separate, the Qataris not part of the HIOS contract.

[C24]

I think it's about time someone posted a guide on how to use the forum's 'Quote' function.

Can I quote you on that?

No need for a guide with Mike on watch

[Tarnished1]

The QEAF expansion rate is staggering :

From around 12 Mirage 2000's not so long back to 36 Boeing F-15QA Advanced Eagles, 36 Dassault Rafales and 24 Eurofighter Typhoons if all goes well.

Question needs to be asked if 9's enough..... They're going to need a substantial increase in pilots too!

Indeed, must be some corruption somewhere along the line but I'm willing to overlook all that for the economic case!

Whilst dealing with various ME countries, the exchange of "gifts" (also can can be seen as bribes), to secure access to "middle men" in key positions to influence the outcome of the contract, appears to be a way of life... Didn't qatar win the hosting of World Cup 2022 through aledgedly bribing FIFA? None of that appears to matter when it comes to economic benefit to another organisation.

[Freeman Lowell]

Whilst dealing with various ME countries, the exchange of "gifts" (also can can be seen as bribes), to secure access to "middle men" in key positions to influence the outcome of the contract, appears to be a way of life... Didn't qatar win the hosting of World Cup 2022 through aledgedly bribing FIFA? None of that appears to matter when it comes to economic benefit to another organisation.

All explained in Yes Minister 'The Moral Dimension' Series 3, episode 4. Currently available on the BBC iPlayer.
Freeman