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USMC F-35B down in the US

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ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:19 am

Starbuck wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:17 am
A better head on shot and you can see the left wing hose pod in the field.

https://twitter.com/AndyNetherwood/stat ... 62/photo/1
That’s the one. :thumb:

ArabJazzie
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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ArabJazzie » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:52 am

I see some speculation of this landing with 3 damaged props, but i expect the Port outer to be damaged at the time the Port drogue pod was removed.

It has to be said this is some display of airmanship to get this down with an airframe mostly intact and no loss of life.
Stay Safe,
Geoff.

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Thunder
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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by Thunder » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:11 pm

Ah I did see that picture, just wasn’t as clear as the one above. I thought the subject lying in the field was a police vehicle, didn’t think of the drum unit.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:14 pm

ArabJazzie wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:52 am
I see some speculation of this landing with 3 damaged props, but i expect the Port outer to be damaged at the time the Port drogue pod was removed.

It has to be said this is some display of airmanship to get this down with an airframe mostly intact and no loss of life.
Stay Safe,
Geoff.
Indeed. The engine couldn’t have been rotating too fast when that damage happened.

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Thunder
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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by Thunder » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:17 pm

ColintheCaterpillar wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:38 am

Not sure how a hose could bend that far forward in the slipstream to cause that.
Since this is a discussion forum we can discuss, can t we, although some of you will say I'm speculating.

If the F-35 was connected to the hose and drogue at the time and went under the wing or fuselage of the tanker to avoid a possible collision, its is very plausible that the hose when it became detached whipped up into the props/engines. I 've seen these hoses snap and they whip around like god knows what. I agree that the Port outer prop was probably damage when the Port HDU separated from the wing.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by 22A » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:55 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-mi ... ocid=ientp
Crew of two in the F35accordin g to this report plus eight pax on the KC.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by plmc135 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:01 pm

22A wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:55 pm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-mi ... ocid=ientp
Crew of two in the F35accordin g to this report plus eight pax on the KC.
That would be interesting as all F35s are single seat :ninja:

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Thunder
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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by Thunder » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:34 pm

That's what happened, darn backseat drivers!!

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by DevelopedBug » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:11 pm

Listening to the ATC, the Herc crew said they'd lost engines 3 & 4 when they declared the emergency to LA Centre, extrapolate what you will from that, but sounds to me like the F-35 may have clonked them.

It also means the crew managed to put that plane down in a very asymmetric configuration - which is possible how the LH AAR pod became dislodged.

Main thing is everyone is ok, the rest is just aluminium and carbon fibre.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:11 pm

Thunder wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:17 pm
ColintheCaterpillar wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:38 am

Not sure how a hose could bend that far forward in the slipstream to cause that.
Since this is a discussion forum we can discuss, can t we, although some of you will say I'm speculating.

If the F-35 was connected to the hose and drogue at the time and went under the wing or fuselage of the tanker to avoid a possible collision, its is very plausible that the hose when it became detached whipped up into the props/engines. I 've seen these hoses snap and they whip around like god knows what. I agree that the Port outer prop was probably damage when the Port HDU separated from the wing.
I have no problem speculating when there is some evidence to look at (like here). :thumb:

I think the only way the hose would get anywhere near the underside or leading edge of the wing would be if it was still attached to the receiver. That would be surprising (maybe impossible) as I suspect to get that much bend the probe would fail sometime before (straight hoses flexing can snap them off). They are heavy beasts, particularly when full of fuel.

I suspect it’ll be far more likely a loss of SA around the tanker which has led to the collision. :)

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by page_verify » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:18 am

A few details from existing C-130 crew:

Left AR pod and #1 prop likely contacted the ground during the forced landing.

The fuel pouring out indicates that the AR manifold was still pressurized. So either they didn’t have time to get the transfer pumps shut off, or they were dumping fuel.

I would imagine the tank on the left wing separated on impact with the ground or soon there after with a prop blade coming off the #1 engine. The right side was probably strictly F-35 damage.

Image

Image

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:59 am

Makes complete sense.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by baz1 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:58 am

and credit due to the crew who got her down ok and virtually in one piece with no lives lost along with the F35

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by page_verify » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:23 am

Yeah, the F35 pilot told the Navy helicopter crew that picked him up that he was convinced the C-130 must've crashed (rather than crash landed). I saw on "another site" that people want the C-130 crew cleared of blame before given medals - yeah ok, it's not 2006 anymore it doesn't work like that anymore. People get recognised for saving lives regardless of whether they were part of the cause for needing to save them, no one person ever does one thing to cause an incident, but I guess some people aren't as familiar with Swiss cheese or today's world.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by CHINOOKER » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:59 am

Can I assume that the Herk would be fitted with onboard video of the refuelling process,re aircraft connecting/disconnecting from the hoses??. If so,I assume,(given the fact that an F-35 was involved),that any such video will probably not surface for many a year,if at all. If as speculated the hose did come into contact with the props etc,shearing them off,resulting in engine failure with associated hydraulic loss and subsequent gear failure then the crew did a remarkable job in getting both the aircraft and themselves down relatively safely!!

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:03 am

CHINOOKER wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:59 am
Can I assume that the Herk would be fitted with onboard video of the refuelling process,re aircraft connecting/disconnecting from the hoses??. If so,I assume,(given the fact that an F-35 was involved),that any such video will probably not surface for many a year,if at all. If as speculated the hose did come into contact with the props etc,shearing them off,resulting in engine failure with associated hydraulic loss and subsequent gear failure then the crew did a remarkable job in getting both the aircraft and themselves down relatively safely!!
Probably has cameras, not necessarily able to record.

Hose into props unlikely I think. It would be a very bizarre set of circumstances for that to happen. F-35 just losing SA and drifting under the wing - probably not even in contact - more likely IMHO.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by cj9ru » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:14 am

Hi

While a great deal of skill required to land that, they have all been incredibly lucky. That could have ended very differently indeed.
Very glad they are all safe.

Chris

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by big john » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:37 am

Looking at the damage on the Herc. it looks like the F35 came down on top of the Starboard wing taking out both props and the cover of the outboard engine.
The question is, who was flying the F35 the computer or the pilot. I am led to believe the F35 is fully automated and the pilot is the office manager and only needs to fly it in an emergency which the computer can't cope with.
rgds
BJ
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Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:20 pm

big john wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:37 am
Looking at the damage on the Herc. it looks like the F35 came down on top of the Starboard wing taking out both props and the cover of the outboard engine.
The question is, who was flying the F35 the computer or the pilot. I am led to believe the F35 is fully automated and the pilot is the office manager and only needs to fly it in an emergency which the computer can't cope with.
Although the missing auxiliary tank between the 3&4 may suggest contact was underneath. The engine vibrating itself to death could account for missing body work (it could even account for a missing tank).

We shall see.

Oh, and on the second bit. Not quite that automated.
Last edited by ColintheCaterpillar on Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: USMC F-35B down in the US

Post by cj9ru » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:03 pm

Well, whatever the ins and outs of what happened, hats off to them for getting down alive. When you look at that head on image and see the mess, they were incredibly lucky to survive that.

I think we often forget what danger our aircrew face every day. It doesn't take much to go wrong to end in disaster. Incidents like this serve as a reminder. Thankfully a happy ending this time.

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