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Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

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ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:13 pm

page_verify wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:43 pm
Who knows, the RAF may only have one working set of mission equipment which it swaps between several frail old air frames? May be keeping 3 of the 5 jets might actually be enough. Has anyone seen more than one E-3D on a mission recently?
If that was the case you’d have a year between flights! :D

As for the missions, to justify a mission you surely need other airborne assets (mainly) to do the job. Bearing in the mind there’s also a few Sqns of E-3 only a few hundred miles away in Germany, then there probably isn’t that much justification for need to launch 2 missions at one time. Look at the trackers these days and it’s not uncommon to see both RAF and NATO E-3s orbiting above the North Sea.

But the answer is yes btw. :thumb:

scottoz8
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by scottoz8 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:24 am

isn't the RAF bound to 5 ??

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TonyO
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by TonyO » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:44 am

scottoz8 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:24 am
isn't the RAF bound to 5 ??
It seems that the RAF re-opened negotiations with Boeing during the summer to adjust the order to get "better value for money." Of course, this could all be just being floated and we still end up with five.

Vulcan74
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Vulcan74 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:12 am

Will cutting down to 3 be more cost effective? The mod must think so but with one always in deep service, another gone tech somewhere which just leaves one available for operations. Will this be cost effective? which has already been said we will then rely on the NATO E3 component to fulfill the gap!!

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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by PeteHemsley » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:16 pm

Vulcan74 wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:12 am
Will cutting down to 3 be more cost effective? The mod must think so but with one always in deep service, another gone tech somewhere which just leaves one available for operations. Will this be cost effective? which has already been said we will then rely on the NATO E3 component to fulfill the gap!!
I'm not sure why you'd think 1 would be in deep service?

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Nighthawke
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Nighthawke » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:25 pm

Nor one gone tech either! :S

Vulcan74
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Vulcan74 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:34 pm

PeteHemsley wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:16 pm
Vulcan74 wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:12 am
Will cutting down to 3 be more cost effective? The mod must think so but with one always in deep service, another gone tech somewhere which just leaves one available for operations. Will this be cost effective? which has already been said we will then rely on the NATO E3 component to fulfill the gap!!
I'm not sure why you'd think 1 would be in deep service?
Having worked for an airline company, we always had one aircraft in deep servicing & another on routine maintenance. Plus the serviceable aircraft went tech from time to time as with the Military!!

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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by PeteHemsley » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:35 am

Vulcan74 wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:34 pm
PeteHemsley wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:16 pm
Vulcan74 wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:12 am
Will cutting down to 3 be more cost effective? The mod must think so but with one always in deep service, another gone tech somewhere which just leaves one available for operations. Will this be cost effective? which has already been said we will then rely on the NATO E3 component to fulfill the gap!!
I'm not sure why you'd think 1 would be in deep service?
:@

Having worked for an airline company, we always had one aircraft in deep servicing & another on routine maintenance. Plus the serviceable aircraft went tech from time to time as with the Military!!
Airliners should never spend more than 8 weeks in servicing unless its structural. A standard C check on Boeing airframes is usually 4-6 weeks. 737 and 757 usually 32 days from roll in to roll out. I cant think of one airline that has 1 aircraft in deep maint on a continuous rotation.

Agent K
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Agent K » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:13 pm

PeteHemsley wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:35 am

…….Airliners should never spend more than 8 weeks in servicing unless its structural. A standard C check on Boeing airframes is usually 4-6 weeks. 737 and 757 usually 32 days from roll in to roll out. I cant think of one airline that has 1 aircraft in deep maint on a continuous rotation.
BA? Those are the about the correct time for these checks, agreed, but for example if you have a fleet of 50 747's, or 40 777's, then once the fleet starts to age beyond 5 years or so, there will always be one of those types in deep maintenance/upgrade/reconfig. However, yes with a fleet of 3 hulls then there will not be one permanently in deep maintenance.

Malcolm
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Malcolm » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:01 pm

Trouble is, E-7 isn't just an airliner.

Think of it this way - how often are all three RAF RC-135's at Waddington at the same time? At any one time there is usually one (sometimes 2) in the US being 'upgraded' to the latest and greatest spec. E-7 will carry similarly complicated systems which will be in need of constant updating, so it's not unreasonable to assume that one will be in the USA being updated for a lot of the time.

If you don't keep the systems updated to the latest and greatest spec, then you risk falling behind and potentially never being able to catch up. AIUI that's one of the problems with the current E3D fleet. MOD have skimped on routine updates so that it's now a long long way behind the NATO, French and USAF aircraft, even though the airframes are newer.

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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by ArabJazzie » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:47 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:01 pm
Trouble is, E-7 isn't just an airliner.

Think of it this way - how often are all three RAF RC-135's at Waddington at the same time? At any one time there is usually one (sometimes 2) in the US being 'upgraded' to the latest and greatest spec. E-7 will carry similarly complicated systems which will be in need of constant updating, so it's not unreasonable to assume that one will be in the USA being updated for a lot of the time.

If you don't keep the systems updated to the latest and greatest spec, then you risk falling behind and potentially never being able to catch up. AIUI that's one of the problems with the current E3D fleet. MOD have skimped on routine updates so that it's now a long long way behind the NATO, French and USAF aircraft, even though the airframes are newer.
And do you really trust that the MOD will not just carry on as before and make the same mistakes again?

Crusty
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Crusty » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 am

Don't want to get political but in the next few months there is a very real danger of the partial collapse of society in the UK and a very long road to recovery
In a word....Priorities.

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TonyO
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by TonyO » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:26 am

Crusty wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 am
Don't want to get political but in the next few months there is a very real danger of the partial collapse of society in the UK and a very long road to recovery
In a word....Priorities.
Agreed, the situation is deadly serious particularly post December 31 if this government doesn't start getting its act together.

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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:36 pm

Crusty wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 am
Don't want to get political but in the next few months there is a very real danger of the partial collapse of society in the UK and a very long road to recovery
In a word....Priorities.
Yep.

Defence is still very much one of those priorities.

MiG_Eater
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by MiG_Eater » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:01 pm

ColintheCaterpillar wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:36 pm
Crusty wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 am
Don't want to get political but in the next few months there is a very real danger of the partial collapse of society in the UK and a very long road to recovery
In a word....Priorities.
Yep.

Defence is still very much one of those priorities.
I am terrified about the future regarding our impending economic collapse, and the stresses this will put on society. In my view there has never been a more important time to invest in defence. If a possible adversary was to consider flexing its muscles, the coming months would be the time to do so, and we would need to be seen to respond.

Alf
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Alf » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:12 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:01 pm
ColintheCaterpillar wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:36 pm
Crusty wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 am
Don't want to get political but in the next few months there is a very real danger of the partial collapse of society in the UK and a very long road to recovery
In a word....Priorities.
Yep.

Defence is still very much one of those priorities.
I am terrified about the future regarding our impending economic collapse, and the stresses this will put on society. In my view there has never been a more important time to invest in defence. If a possible adversary was to consider flexing its muscles, the coming months would be the time to do so, and we would need to be seen to respond.
Terrified? Curious to know who you think this adversary would be and why they would single out the UK (a NATO member)...

Sparts99
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Sparts99 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:41 pm

Interesting article in the Observer this weekend about China and Russia exploiting any instabilty or uncertainty in the White House as the election looms. Seems to me we are reaching a similar situtaion here with an electorate increasingly at odds and dissatisfied with the current leadership and brexit looming with the potential for a hugely damaging on both sides of the channel no deal, now would be the time to test the strength and resolve of any western alliance. Not picking the UK specifically but exploiting any weaknesses and formenting dissent by adding further distractions and stresses to an embattled leadership. Which is why neglecting key areas of defence such as ASW and managemanet of our responsibilities in the air and sea in the North Sea and North Atlantic are unforgivable in my opinion.
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.

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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by Snoop 95 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:11 pm

Sparts99 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:41 pm
Interesting article in the Observer this weekend about China and Russia exploiting any instabilty or uncertainty in the White House as the election looms. Seems to me we are reaching a similar situtaion here with an electorate increasingly at odds and dissatisfied with the current leadership and brexit looming with the potential for a hugely damaging on both sides of the channel no deal, now would be the time to test the strength and resolve of any western alliance. Not picking the UK specifically but exploiting any weaknesses and formenting dissent by adding further distractions and stresses to an embattled leadership. Which is why neglecting key areas of defence such as ASW and managemanet of our responsibilities in the air and sea in the North Sea and North Atlantic are unforgivable in my opinion.
Agree unfortunately.

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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by TonyO » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:32 pm

Alf wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:12 pm

Terrified? Curious to know who you think this adversary would be and why they would single out the UK (a NATO member)...
Would say that Russia has done a pretty good job of weakening the UK already, so much so that the government hasn't bothered to investigate it.

MiG_Eater
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Re: Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail Fleet now only 3?

Post by MiG_Eater » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:41 pm

Alf wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:12 pm
MiG_Eater wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:01 pm
ColintheCaterpillar wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:36 pm


Yep.

Defence is still very much one of those priorities.
I am terrified about the future regarding our impending economic collapse, and the stresses this will put on society. In my view there has never been a more important time to invest in defence. If a possible adversary was to consider flexing its muscles, the coming months would be the time to do so, and we would need to be seen to respond.
Terrified? Curious to know who you think this adversary would be and why they would single out the UK (a NATO member)...
I'm terrified of the coming economic collapse, and remain crushed by the current state of society.

As for an adversary, as history shows it could come from anywhere - but my concern is not regarding a direct attack on the UK, but an attack on an ally that could lead to a wider destabilsation. A consolidation of Hong Kong by the Chinese, or maybe even a direct attack on Taiwan; perhaps more Russian maneuvers in Ukraine, Iran, Syria - the list goes on.

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