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Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

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Finty
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Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Finty » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:53 am

As the United Kingdom prepares its next defense review — the Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy — experts close to the program are increasingly talking about a significant cut in the country’s orders for F-35B Lightning jet fighters.


Reports in the British media last month suggested that the United Kingdom may only buy 70 F-35Bs, rather than the 138 aircraft originally planned. Although a reduction in numbers had been long rumored, the story in The Times cited sources close to the government’s defense review — details of which are planned for release later this year. Meanwhile, the UK Ministry of Defence has steadfastly held to the 138-aircraft figure in its communications.

Yesterday, September 15, 2020, a group of experts provided the Defence Committee with an update on the progress made by the UK’s F-35 and Carrier Strike programs, with an eye on how they could impact the ongoing Integrated Review
More here https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... nse-review
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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by GOOSE » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:36 pm

The upcoming Defence Review has the potential to be a "bloodbath" for multiple platforms and programs, air, land and sea, unfortunately. Recent spending on COVID related issues will force this.
Aviation - “You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.” :thumb:

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Agent K » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:44 am

GOOSE wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:36 pm
The upcoming Defence Review has the potential to be a "bloodbath" for multiple platforms and programs, air, land and sea, unfortunately. Recent spending on COVID related issues will force this.
As will the huge amounts spent/lost/wasted on Brexit force budget cuts.

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Tally-ho
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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Tally-ho » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:58 am

Agent K wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:44 am

As will the huge amounts spent/lost/wasted on Brexit force budget cuts.
Are you still stuck on an issue that was settled years ago? Are you still struggling to understand the democratic will of the people? Move on mate, it's almost 2021!

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Agent K » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:05 am

Tally-ho wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:58 am
Agent K wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:44 am

As will the huge amounts spent/lost/wasted on Brexit force budget cuts.
Are you still stuck on an issue that was settled years ago? Are you still struggling to understand the democratic will of the people? Move on mate, it's almost 2021!
If you read my statement, objectively, rather than jump to some kind of defence, do you not see £Millions spent on unused ghost ferry contracts? unused lorry parks? new satellites? due to poor, actually non-existent planning, as spent/lost/wasted? whatever the side of the fence you're on? I stand by my statement that it is money spent/lost/wasted, how can you argue any other way? or are you still stuck in the belief it has taken us to a unicorn inhabited sunny upland?

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by TonyO » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:54 am

Tally-ho wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:58 am
Agent K wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:44 am

As will the huge amounts spent/lost/wasted on Brexit force budget cuts.
Are you still stuck on an issue that was settled years ago? Are you still struggling to understand the democratic will of the people? Move on mate, it's almost 2021!
Why do you think the Integrated Review is taking place? It's shaping the armed forces for Britain post-Brexit, they will tell you its about being ready for "Global Britain," but its preparing us really for more austere times, with reduced GDP, a decade of limited trade. Just because it was the will of the people, doesn't make it any less balmy or ill-thought out, not to mention that the process is being pursued by the most incompetent government since the Eden Administration. The sunlit uplands are not coming, get ready for the hermit kingdom.

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Yammer » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:09 am

Shrinking, shrinking and no doubt more shrinking too. We may be left with just the Trident submarines, which are handy for deterring a nuclear conflict but not much use in other scenarios.

It's hard to cut the cloth to fit when the cloth is small.

Still we can enjoy the memories.
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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Tally-ho » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:10 am

@TonyO
I am in broad agreement with your sentiments, my only ancillary comment would be that the current government is far more palatable than the alternative that faced us in the December 2019 elections.

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by TonyO » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:15 am

Tally-ho wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:10 am
@TonyO
I am in broad agreement with your sentiments, my only ancillary comment would be that the current government is far more palatable than the alternative that faced us in the December 2019 elections.
Couldn't agree with you more. A lot of pain is coming over the horizon, I don't think any administration is up to the job of getting us through it. Brexit is a all-consuming monster, the consequences of which are far from understood, unfortunately, this government is blinded by its own ideology.

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Yammer » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:20 am

Yes - Govey will talk about queues later this afternoon in Parliament

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470
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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by TonyO » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:57 pm

Now Kent is being partitioned from the rest of the UK...

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Agent K » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:25 pm

TonyO wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:57 pm
Now Kent is being partitioned from the rest of the UK...
Surely not?, as I was "corrected" in post #345 this "was settled years ago" and thus by implication there will be no expenditure required for such a crazy idea and therefore no impact on budgets across the board, including defence and, with reference to the thread title, the F35 procurement plans? :roll:

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Tally-ho » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:45 pm

To all those Doomsday prophets:-

Feast your eyes on the content and aircraft pictures of this article. Smell that heady mixture of Avgas and sea air as you peruse the pictures. Ponder our 'special relationship' and the best friend Britain has had in the White House since Ronald Reagan. You are looking at global military power projection, unmatched in engineering and technical expertise. And this is only the start ...

Here's to HMS QE, her deck adorned with F-35B's of the Dam Busters and the Wake Island Avengers. :thumb:

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... uk-us-jets

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Alf » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:24 pm

Tally-ho wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:45 pm
To all those Doomsday prophets:-

Feast your eyes on the content and aircraft pictures of this article. Smell that heady mixture of Avgas and sea air as you peruse the pictures. Ponder our 'special relationship' and the best friend Britain has had in the White House since Ronald Reagan. You are looking at global military power projection, unmatched in engineering and technical expertise. And this is only the start ...

Here's to HMS QE, her deck adorned with F-35B's of the Dam Busters and the Wake Island Avengers. :thumb:

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... uk-us-jets
Heres hoping the orange idiot is out of a job by November 4th.. we can hope...

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by TonyO » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:28 pm

Tally-ho wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:45 pm
To all those Doomsday prophets:-

Feast your eyes on the content and aircraft pictures of this article. Smell that heady mixture of Avgas and sea air as you peruse the pictures. Ponder our 'special relationship' and the best friend Britain has had in the White House since Ronald Reagan. You are looking at global military power projection, unmatched in engineering and technical expertise. And this is only the start ...

Here's to HMS QE, her deck adorned with F-35B's of the Dam Busters and the Wake Island Avengers. :thumb:

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... uk-us-jets
I wonder if the UK will be able to afford the running of the carrier in 2 or 3 years time.

Doughnut
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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Doughnut » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:56 pm

Maybe we should be considering the affordability of Trident's replacement ?
I understand the Nuclear deterrent question but ....

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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by Sparts99 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:59 pm

Tally-ho wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:45 pm
To all those Doomsday prophets:-

Feast your eyes on the content and aircraft pictures of this article. Smell that heady mixture of Avgas and sea air as you peruse the pictures. Ponder our 'special relationship' and the best friend Britain has had in the White House since Ronald Reagan. You are looking at global military power projection, unmatched in engineering and technical expertise. And this is only the start ...

Here's to HMS QE, her deck adorned with F-35B's of the Dam Busters and the Wake Island Avengers. :thumb:

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... uk-us-jets
See here https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/ ... ike-group/
I read that as over running and over budget, we are years and years away from global military power projection. To quote from the article “It will be for display purposes only, and that’s a very expensive toy.”

"And this is only the start ... " what's next? We can't even afford this at the moment. I suggest you read 'Nimrod: Rise and Fall' by Tony Blackman to understand what happens when political meddling gets too deep into military projects. A headline big figure cut looks good to most of the electorate, the carriers and F-35 fleet could give them that. Taking a long term view rarely wins votes.

As for the best friend since Reagan, really?
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.

raameagle
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Re: Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Post by raameagle » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:37 pm

I wonder how many people on here were out first thing this morning panic buying toilet rolls lol!
This might sound novel but why don’t we wait until the results of the Defence Review are announced and then debate the whys and wherefors?! It won’t be long before the results are out.
Regards
Mark

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