Did you know that registration to Fighter Control is completely free and brings you lots of added features? Find out more....

Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

A forum for discussing all things related to MILITARY AVIATION including Military Aviation news. No off-topic discussions here please.
Vulcan74
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:26 am

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Vulcan74 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:10 pm

Not so often the countries we fund are corrupt and some have got the nerve to spend money on a space programme and not their own people! When we need the money back home!!

Agent K
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:50 am
Location: Nearby RAF Henlow, Bedfordshire

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:12 pm

Vulcan74 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:54 pm
Maybe if we stopped funding certain countries in the first place who couldn't give a crap about their own people, then maybe we would not have to keep making defence cuts here & there!!
What a narrow minded view! it's called soft power/diplomacy where you can attract and influence peoples and countries, giving longer term benefits across the board, and savings on defence spend amongst many other things! Look it up!

User avatar
Tally-ho
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: East Midlands

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Tally-ho » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:44 pm

TonyO wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:02 pm
Vulcan74 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:54 pm
Maybe if we stopped funding certain countries in the first place who couldn't give a crap about their own people, then maybe we would not have to keep making defence cuts here & there!!
That's a very isolationist view, the money sent to other countries in the form of aid, also helps to reduce the risk of conflict in those countries, instability that might lead to economic migration and other issues that arrive on our doorstep, plus the amount we spend is fairly small in the grand scheme of things.
@Vulcan74
Correct!

@TonyO and Agent K
Wrong! Charity begins at home. The 0.7% of GNI (Gross National Income) being doled out abroad on International Aid is a nonsense. Thankfully there is to be a review soon to assess this 'Aid' seeing as the Departments for International Development and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office may well merge. Hopefully far less wastage via 'Aid' going to failed states mired in corruption.

Vulcan74
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:26 am

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Vulcan74 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:53 pm

AgentK


Not at all it's the truth, why should we fund a country with a space programme that's not bothered about it's own people. Where's the logic there, money better spent at home on defence & NHS!!

Doughnut
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:21 am

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Doughnut » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:19 pm

Concerning the space program, and ultimately its use in the defence sector, did I read UK Government has just invested in a share of a failed satellite launch company alongside an Indian company, rather than admit failure and join the European Galileo system. There are times to be independent and time to choose who your friends and allies are.

Doughnut
Posts: 924
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:21 am

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Doughnut » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:27 pm

Must admit I am late to joining this thread, so apologises if this point has already been raised.
Does this proposed defence review also consider the huge costs associated with the replacement of the Trident nuclear deterrent ?
We live, always have lived, in an unpredictable world, COVID-19 for example, all the defence spending in the world could not help.
Guess millions have already been spent on the new nuclear deterrent but serious and sensible debate should be had before billions more is spent.
Perhaps the subject needs another thread ?

User avatar
Tally-ho
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 am
Location: East Midlands

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Tally-ho » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:40 pm

Doughnut wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:19 pm
Concerning the space program, and ultimately its use in the defence sector, did I read UK Government has just invested in a share of a failed satellite launch company alongside an Indian company, rather than admit failure and join the European Galileo system. There are times to be independent and time to choose who your friends and allies are.
The EU Galileo system has not been without failures. Do your research - said with respect.

User avatar
TonyO
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:52 pm
Location: Laandaaan, UK
Contact:

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by TonyO » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:19 pm

Vulcan74 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:10 pm
Not so often the countries we fund are corrupt and some have got the nerve to spend money on a space programme and not their own people! When we need the money back home!!
We haven't sent international aid money to India for several years, that's presumably the nation you are referring to.

User avatar
TonyO
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:52 pm
Location: Laandaaan, UK
Contact:

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by TonyO » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:22 pm

Tally-ho wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:40 pm
Doughnut wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:19 pm
Concerning the space program, and ultimately its use in the defence sector, did I read UK Government has just invested in a share of a failed satellite launch company alongside an Indian company, rather than admit failure and join the European Galileo system. There are times to be independent and time to choose who your friends and allies are.
The EU Galileo system has not been without failures. Do your research - said with respect.
To be fair, Galileo is like any major infrastructure project, they all have hiccups, GPS, Beidou have also had problems. The OneWeb investment is a really interesting idea, and potentially solves two policy plans, one to give the UK fast broadband, the other to give the UK and its allies an alterative satellite-based navigation system.

page_verify
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:19 pm

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by page_verify » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:19 pm

Doughnut wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:27 pm
Must admit I am late to joining this thread, so apologises if this point has already been raised.
Does this proposed defence review also consider the huge costs associated with the replacement of the Trident nuclear deterrent ?
We live, always have lived, in an unpredictable world, COVID-19 for example, all the defence spending in the world could not help.
Guess millions have already been spent on the new nuclear deterrent but serious and sensible debate should be had before billions more is spent.
Perhaps the subject needs another thread ?
The 'sensible debate' you mentioned happened back in 2007 and 2016, allowing the first of several long-lead time, large, and irreversible spending commitments to then be made.

"In 2007 the government, endorsed by a Parliamentary vote, began a programme to maintain the UK’s nuclear deterrent beyond the early 2030s. The 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review (Cm 9161) confirmed the UK’s commitment to an independent minimum credible deterrent, reaffirmed in 2016 when the House voted overwhelmingly to maintain the Continuous At Sea Deterrence posture."

"In July 2016, a debate was held in the House of Commons on the principle of Continuous At Sea Deterrence (CASD). MPs voted decisively to maintain our current CASD posture, with 472 votes for the motion and 117 against. We continue to make the necessary investments to sustain CASD, as the ultimate guarantee of our security. Work is underway to replace the Vanguard Class of nuclear-armed submarines with the new Dreadnought Class."

"In September 2016, the MOD signed the delivery phase one contract, initiating construction of HMS Dreadnought, the first ‘Successor’ submarine, at Barrow in Furness. The MOD is also making good progress on related requirements, appointing a new Director General Nuclear to oversee the nuclear programme, developing plans to establish a Submarine Delivery Body, and, working with BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce to put in place improved industrial and commercial arrangements for the delivery of the four Dreadnought Class submarines."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t_2016.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defe ... ar-warhead

I understand the cost of cancellation now will be large with large amounts having to be written off as well.

User avatar
ChrisCwmbran
Posts: 971
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:06 pm

Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:22 pm
But AC didn't have known ties to Russia, Russian funding, wasn't found in contempt of Parliament, didn't lie about house ownership and lack of planning permission...…….. I could go on...……. but it's not really the same is it... it seems the only people touching themselves are those on the opposing end of the political spectrum.
I would agree that Labour's connections to Russia now need urgent and thorough investigation.

Corbyn collaborating with Russia like this in an attempt to alter the outcome of the election is quite unacceptable.

Agent K
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:50 am
Location: Nearby RAF Henlow, Bedfordshire

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:09 am

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:06 pm
Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:22 pm
But AC didn't have known ties to Russia, Russian funding, wasn't found in contempt of Parliament, didn't lie about house ownership and lack of planning permission...…….. I could go on...……. but it's not really the same is it... it seems the only people touching themselves are those on the opposing end of the political spectrum.
I would agree that Labour's connections to Russia now need urgent and thorough investigation.

Corbyn collaborating with Russia like this in an attempt to alter the outcome of the election is quite unacceptable.
Any identified and true connection that is illegal and detrimental to the UK's democracy needs investigation, left or right wing. Whilst there are known and proven ties between Cummings/the conservative party and Russia I'm genuinely not aware of similar with Corbyn or labour other than a historical shared ideology with the previous communist principles (I'm no fan of Corbyn and happy to see any proven wrong doing dealt with), perhaps you can expand?

Alf
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:08 pm

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Alf » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:33 am

[/quote]

I would agree that Labour's connections to Russia now need urgent and thorough investigation.

Corbyn collaborating with Russia like this in an attempt to alter the outcome of the election is quite unacceptable.
[/quote]

The story on the BBC is that it was the Tories collaborating with the Russians .. nothing to do with Labour

User avatar
ChrisCwmbran
Posts: 971
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:48 am

Alf wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:33 am
I would agree that Labour's connections to Russia now need urgent and thorough investigation.

Corbyn collaborating with Russia like this in an attempt to alter the outcome of the election is quite unacceptable.
[/quote]

The story on the BBC is that it was the Tories collaborating with the Russians .. nothing to do with Labour
[/quote]

On the contrary the BBC story relates to documentation being used supposedly as evidence during the election campaign by Corbyn, purportedly portraying discussion between the UK and the US, that it seems was actually from the Russians.

Agent K
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:50 am
Location: Nearby RAF Henlow, Bedfordshire

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:59 am

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:48 am

On the contrary the BBC story relates to documentation being used supposedly as evidence during the election campaign by Corbyn, purportedly portraying discussion between the UK and the US, that it seems was actually from the Russians.
supposedly, purportedly, seems...… mmm.... if true they should be dealt with fully and appropriately, but also so should the KNOWN links between conservatives and Russia too as stated above. I'm sure a well balanced and open minded person as you would agree, yes?

User avatar
ChrisCwmbran
Posts: 971
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am
Location: South Wales

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:01 pm

If there are links between any political party in the UK and Russia that cross the lines of acceptability then certainly.

I do however think that external powers meddling in elections in the UK is not at all surprising, and I'd put money on the fact that when the Russians have elections we do our bit too....

I suspect most of the more developed countries in the world are doing so to each other.

mushbuster
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:34 pm
Location: South Gloucestershire

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by mushbuster » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:28 pm

The use of information released to the public domain by Russian 'actors' is hardly collaboration by a political party, if that is what you believe you need to do some more research. As for influencing Russian elections, you have to be kidding. Putin's procedural change, that was "voted" for just a few weeks ago, allows him to keep his 'elected' position until 2036. You can only interfere covertly in democratic elections where there is a semblance of democracy to interfere with.
There will be much more about meddling in recent US and UK elections to come.

User avatar
TonyO
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:52 pm
Location: Laandaaan, UK
Contact:

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by TonyO » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 pm

Just to bring this up to date, but the whole question of whether JHC will move Apaches from Wattisham has been quietly answered in the latest edition of Soldier Magazine.

It states: "THE Army executive committee has confirmed there will be no change to the current basing of Apache attack helicopters, ending years of uncertainty for personnel and their families. As a result, 7 Regiment, Army Air Corps will stay at Middle Wallop while 3 and 4 Regiments, Army Air Corps and 7 (Aviation Support) Battalion, REME will remain at Wattisham Flying Station."

Agent K
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:50 am
Location: Nearby RAF Henlow, Bedfordshire

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:54 am

TonyO wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 pm
Just to bring this up to date, but the whole question of whether JHC will move Apaches from Wattisham has been quietly answered in the latest edition of Soldier Magazine.

It states: "THE Army executive committee has confirmed there will be no change to the current basing of Apache attack helicopters, ending years of uncertainty for personnel and their families. As a result, 7 Regiment, Army Air Corps will stay at Middle Wallop while 3 and 4 Regiments, Army Air Corps and 7 (Aviation Support) Battalion, REME will remain at Wattisham Flying Station."
Excellent, that means I'll continue to see them as they fly over my house en route to and from Salisbury Plain and South/Western training areas.

Agent K
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:50 am
Location: Nearby RAF Henlow, Bedfordshire

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:58 am

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:01 pm
If there are links between any political party in the UK and Russia that cross the lines of acceptability then certainly.

I do however think that external powers meddling in elections in the UK is not at all surprising, and I'd put money on the fact that when the Russians have elections we do our bit too....

I suspect most of the more developed countries in the world are doing so to each other.
For that to happen it would require, surely, at least some semblance of democracy in Russia? any hint of that and the Novichok is used.

Post Reply

Return to “The Fighter Control Mess”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests