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Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

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pug
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by pug » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:59 pm

What was the democratic will of the "British" people, pug?
Not sure if that was meant for me? I have no idea why the people wanted Brexit in the first place..

I’m already well aware of the impact Brexit is having in business, having former colleagues looking for work due to the decision to leave. I have also negatively been impacted.

The thing about Brexit is it’s damage is insidious, so proponents can shout as much as they like about how the country hasn’t sunk into oblivion as was apparently touted would happen by ‘remoaners’. Lack of as much opportunity as the baby boomers will blight anyone under 40 - sadly the age bracket more likely to vote remain.


In five years it’ll be tough to find people who will admit to voting leave.

Edit; thanks for the clarification RubyRoo, didn’t want to derail the thread but it’s a relevant argument as this will undoubtedly shape future defence funding.
Last edited by pug on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

RubyRoo
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by RubyRoo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:10 pm

pug wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:59 pm
What was the democratic will of the "British" people, pug?
Not sure if that was meant for me? I have no idea why the people wanted Brexit in the first place..

I’m already well aware of the impact Brexit is having in business, having former colleagues looking for work due to the decision to leave. I have also negatively been impacted.

The thing about Brexit is it’s damage is insidious, so proponents can shout as much as they like about how the country hasn’t sunk into oblivion as was apparently toured would happen by ‘remoaners’.

In five years it’ll be tough to find people who will admit to voting leave.
pug, my apologies. My comment was meant to be directed at tm74sqn. I'll edit the post.

pug
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by pug » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:32 pm


Shot12778
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Shot12778 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:30 pm

Telling article (and thread) - Wasnt Brexit sold as a way to remove some non-elected decision makers - and yet we now have exactly that firmly installed at the top our Government..

We'll see in time if it was bluster, but just about everything now is 'leaked' in advance to test the waters, so expect something soon.

Agent K
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:11 am

pug wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:32 pm
https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... rt-you-out

How topical.
How very timely. I think as I said before, anybody who believes he is a minor advisor with no real power is very naive.

And to threaten the CoS with an unelected "advisor" with Russian links and to whom it appears even the PM is answerable to is outrageous. Bring me back the elected European Parliament any day.

Agent K
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:22 am

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/cum ... 559za.html

"Cummings to drop in on Britain's most secret defence installations"

Concerning, if true, does he even have clearance as a spad? gotta hand it to the guy though, he's clearly a genius, he's a pandemic expert and a self invited advisor on SAGE, a defence expert amongst many other "talents".....

Rugbyref
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Rugbyref » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:30 am

pug wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:59 pm
What was the democratic will of the "British" people, pug?
Not sure if that was meant for me? I have no idea why the people wanted Brexit in the first place..

I’m already well aware of the impact Brexit is having in business, having former colleagues looking for work due to the decision to leave. I have also negatively been impacted.

The thing about Brexit is it’s damage is insidious, so proponents can shout as much as they like about how the country hasn’t sunk into oblivion as was apparently touted would happen by ‘remoaners’. Lack of as much opportunity as the baby boomers will blight anyone under 40 - sadly the age bracket more likely to vote remain.


In five years it’ll be tough to find people who will admit to voting leave.

Edit; thanks for the clarification RubyRoo, didn’t want to derail the thread but it’s a relevant argument as this will undoubtedly shape future defence funding.
In 5 years your precious EU will not exist in its current form. It will either have imploded (hopefully) or turned into the United States of Europe (the published goal of von der Leyen.) I will never regret campaigning and voting to leave the EU. VAT on Tampons, the Dublin agreement that prevents Patel sending back the criminal boat invaders, the metric martyr, the corrupt fraudulent use of our money. Just a fraction of the reasons why the majority think you are wrong, and why we are escaping the clutches of the pathetic ones such as Juncker and Verhofstad.

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TonyO
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by TonyO » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:48 am

Rugbyref wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:30 am
pug wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:59 pm
What was the democratic will of the "British" people, pug?
Not sure if that was meant for me? I have no idea why the people wanted Brexit in the first place..

I’m already well aware of the impact Brexit is having in business, having former colleagues looking for work due to the decision to leave. I have also negatively been impacted.

The thing about Brexit is it’s damage is insidious, so proponents can shout as much as they like about how the country hasn’t sunk into oblivion as was apparently touted would happen by ‘remoaners’. Lack of as much opportunity as the baby boomers will blight anyone under 40 - sadly the age bracket more likely to vote remain.


In five years it’ll be tough to find people who will admit to voting leave.

Edit; thanks for the clarification RubyRoo, didn’t want to derail the thread but it’s a relevant argument as this will undoubtedly shape future defence funding.
In 5 years your precious EU will not exist in its current form. It will either have imploded (hopefully) or turned into the United States of Europe (the published goal of von der Leyen.) I will never regret campaigning and voting to leave the EU. VAT on Tampons, the Dublin agreement that prevents Patel sending back the criminal boat invaders, the metric martyr, the corrupt fraudulent use of our money. Just a fraction of the reasons why the majority think you are wrong, and why we are escaping the clutches of the pathetic ones such as Juncker and Verhofstad.
:roll:

pug
Posts: 67
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by pug » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:53 am

Rugbyref wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:30 am
pug wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:59 pm
What was the democratic will of the "British" people, pug?
Not sure if that was meant for me? I have no idea why the people wanted Brexit in the first place..

I’m already well aware of the impact Brexit is having in business, having former colleagues looking for work due to the decision to leave. I have also negatively been impacted.

The thing about Brexit is it’s damage is insidious, so proponents can shout as much as they like about how the country hasn’t sunk into oblivion as was apparently touted would happen by ‘remoaners’. Lack of as much opportunity as the baby boomers will blight anyone under 40 - sadly the age bracket more likely to vote remain.


In five years it’ll be tough to find people who will admit to voting leave.

Edit; thanks for the clarification RubyRoo, didn’t want to derail the thread but it’s a relevant argument as this will undoubtedly shape future defence funding.
In 5 years your precious EU will not exist in its current form. It will either have imploded (hopefully) or turned into the United States of Europe (the published goal of von der Leyen.) I will never regret campaigning and voting to leave the EU. VAT on Tampons, the Dublin agreement that prevents Patel sending back the criminal boat invaders, the metric martyr, the corrupt fraudulent use of our money. Just a fraction of the reasons why the majority think you are wrong, and why we are escaping the clutches of the pathetic ones such as Juncker and Verhofstad.
Your beloved Churchill would be turning in his grave. Are you enjoying the cheaper tampons now RugbyRef? Even though the VAT levy was scrapped before the vote to leave. Are you going to start banging on about the Lisbon Treaty? There is no USofE, no EU Army.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.poli ... urope/amp/

Yes certain factions in the EU would like to see it happen but as a member state we had significant influence and crucially power of Veto (as did every other member state)! We have none now. Do you want to see Europe become destabilised? Are you one of those who - when scratching the surface - would love to see another war? The nationalistic rhetoric used by those you vote for is frightening.

Depressingly absolutely none of what you have posted against the EU affects you negatively, apart from the Tampon Tax (if you are female), and even that has been scrapped.

What affect do you think it will have on our military funding RugbyRef? Do you see the U.K. as a military superpower or do you envisage with Brexit we will also be forced to relinquish that in favour of an insular isolationist approach?
Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:22 am
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/cum ... 559za.html

"Cummings to drop in on Britain's most secret defence installations"

Concerning, if true, does he even have clearance as a spad? gotta hand it to the guy though, he's clearly a genius, he's a pandemic expert and a self invited advisor on SAGE, a defence expert amongst many other "talents".....
Would be funny if it wasn’t so close to the bone. Is this all just some Whitehall in-joke with a nod to Malcolm Tucker?
Last edited by pug on Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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roughcutter
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by roughcutter » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:53 am

Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:22 am
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/cum ... 559za.html

"Cummings to drop in on Britain's most secret defence installations"

Concerning, if true, does he even have clearance as a spad? gotta hand it to the guy though, he's clearly a genius, he's a pandemic expert and a self invited advisor on SAGE, a defence expert amongst many other "talents".....
Vladimir Putin was just a KGB officer who in the back ground ended up pulling the strings of a lame duck president, just saying... :whistle:
... and a fair haired slightly balding Bobby Charlton to kick off!

RubyRoo
Posts: 254
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by RubyRoo » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:33 am

pug, I wouldn't bother posting cogent arguments to these people. They are beyond reasoning with and ignore every single fact put in front of them. A TonyO eye roll will suffice.

steamy
Posts: 231
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by steamy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:12 am

Rugbyref wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:30 am
Just a fraction of the reasons why the majority think you are wrong
If the voting trend was the same, and the turnout in the 18-50 bracket was the same as the 50+ bracket... Brexit wouldn't have happened.

Quite a shame really, as they're the age bracket it will have a more long term direct impact on... but that's democracy, don't use your vote, lose your voice..

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ChrisCwmbran
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:13 pm

One wonders if those lefties who seem compelled to touch themselves at the slightest mention of Dominic Cummings had the same problem with Alistair Campbell when, let's face it, he was a far more powerful non-elected member of the B-Lair government.

At any rate even if these supposed ideas have come from him, as has been pointed out that is far from them being policy.

Agent K
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by Agent K » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:22 pm

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:13 pm
One wonders if those lefties who seem compelled to touch themselves at the slightest mention of Dominic Cummings had the same problem with Alistair Campbell when, let's face it, he was a far more powerful non-elected member of the B-Lair government.

At any rate even if these supposed ideas have come from him, as has been pointed out that is far from them being policy.
But AC didn't have known ties to Russia, Russian funding, wasn't found in contempt of Parliament, didn't lie about house ownership and lack of planning permission...…….. I could go on...……. but it's not really the same is it... it seems the only people touching themselves are those on the opposing end of the political spectrum.

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ChrisCwmbran
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:28 pm

Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:22 pm
...…….. I could go on...…….
I'm quite sure you will.

pug
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by pug » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:52 pm

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:13 pm
One wonders if those lefties who seem compelled to touch themselves at the slightest mention of Dominic Cummings had the same problem with Alistair Campbell when, let's face it, he was a far more powerful non-elected member of the B-Lair government.

At any rate even if these supposed ideas have come from him, as has been pointed out that is far from them being policy.
Not sure how that’s relevant..? It just highlights the utter hypocrisy of Brexit arguments about unelected bureaucrats in Brussels when there are far more in Whitehall! Policies are written for, not by, the people we elect. I appreciate Cummings aspires to shake this up and ‘streamline’, much like the auditor brought in by a failing company in a ploy to turn things around, but I don’t believe Cummings should be the driving force. Such radical destabilisation in the midst of his Brexit construct and the fallout of Covid is terrifying.

They aren’t supposed ideas, they are outlined on his own personal blog and weight of change has been signalled by the likes of the Mark Francois quip yesterday. They will invariably drive policy, all the evidence is there. The question is, just how much focus will there be on RAF procurement? What is the job of the RAF and what to the Government want it’s capabilities to be? These will be the questions being posed.
Last edited by pug on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

RubyRoo
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by RubyRoo » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:57 pm

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:28 pm
Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:22 pm
...…….. I could go on...…….
I'm quite sure you will.
Great response. One wonders how you restrained yourself from using remoaner, or snowflake, or triggered, or all the other really intelligent words that come from the rest of your ilk.

Alistair Campbell held far less sway than Cummings in government. People often tar Campbell with the sexing up of the Iraq War dossier. The war was a mistake of monumental proportions, but Campbell himself was cleared of any such doing in the subsequent Chilcot Enquiry.

As lamentable as you think Campbell is/was, his actions have been nowhere near as horrendous as those of Cummings. He is a disaster, and if the PM/Conservatives held any kind of backbone, he would have been shown the door long ago.

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plmc135
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by plmc135 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:32 pm

Any chance a moderator could shut this down, to say it is way off topic would be an understatement.

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TonyO
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by TonyO » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:39 pm

Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:22 am
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/cum ... 559za.html

"Cummings to drop in on Britain's most secret defence installations"

Concerning, if true, does he even have clearance as a spad? gotta hand it to the guy though, he's clearly a genius, he's a pandemic expert and a self invited advisor on SAGE, a defence expert amongst many other "talents".....
Its interesting that one of those named is the RAF's Rapid Capablities Office which is working on Tempest and several other initiatives, some smart stuff going on there.

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roughcutter
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Re: Army, Navy, RAF severe cuts

Post by roughcutter » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:48 pm

plmc135 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:32 pm
Any chance a moderator could shut this down, to say it is way off topic would be an understatement.
Excuse me, but this is a very interesting debate. Shut yourself down.
... and a fair haired slightly balding Bobby Charlton to kick off!

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