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RRR622 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

A forum for discussing all things related to MILITARY AVIATION including Military Aviation news. No off-topic discussions here please.
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James Cutting
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by James Cutting » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:03 am

Agreed and well put. I believe we should have one, but not right now.
"Grim Reapers Supporter"

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Agent K
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Agent K » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:19 am

Doughnut wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:46 pm
I do not understand why the UK government has to pay for this repaint ?
Surely part of the deal with Air Tanker was to supply, operate and maintain a fleet of aircraft use RAF use.
The A330 fleet was always intended for tanker and transport use, hence the non-tanker A330's leased to airlines like Jet 2 and Thomas Cook and recalled to RAF duty as required.
I suspect you'll find that within the contract. It's not too difficult to see that the leasing to airline operations is revenue generating and handled by AirTanker, at their cost and benefit. A repaint for a governmental role is out of sequence for the operation and non revenue generating.

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Pune
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Pune » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:20 am

Snoop 95 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:01 am
Have to say I have always been an advocate of a prestige aircraft for use by the Royal Family and UK deligates to overseas gatherings. Having seen that pretty well every other countries' representtatives turn-up in a recognisably national aircraft, I have always felt second-best when ours arrive in a chartered, anonymous one. Mr Blair wanted to have a suitably-painted aircraft by was subject to howls of derision by the then opposition and Tory press, who dubbed it 'Blairforce One'. So whilst keen on the idea I do agree that now could not be a worse time to actually start painting. As has been said, there are a multitude of urgent requirements for funding which are way higher-up the priority table under the present Covid emergency.
Bad timing Boris and it endorses the 'one rule for you and another for me' conclusion.
Summed up very well Snoop, he is getting bad advice I think!! :whistle:
If you can keep your head whilst all around are losing theirs, you have probably completely misread the situation!!

Agent K
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Agent K » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:22 am

Pune wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:20 am

Summed up very well Snoop, he is getting bad advice I think!! :whistle:
Agreed, and given he gets his advice from and reports to one DC, then that explains all...…....

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plmc135
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by plmc135 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:35 am

So how much money would we be wasting if the flypast over London takes place today? Why celebrate CDG a man who will not only be remembered for his 1940 speech but also the one in Montreal years later "Vive la Quebec libre".

It is always said that the Reds are an ambassador for the UK so why not a Voyager. it is likely to be seen further afield than a Hawk these days.

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TeeJay
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by TeeJay » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:57 am

James Cutting wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:03 am
Agreed and well put. I believe we should have one, but not right now.
Trouble is it would have been planned months ago long before COVID, to cancel at last minute would Still involve huge costs, but with no work being done, so probably more cost effective to keep as plan than cx and reschedule it for a later date....

Rugbyref
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Rugbyref » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:58 am

So all those complaining about the cost would rather the government paid people to stay on furlough, rather than have the money spent on a project that actually involves work. The money spent will partially be recovered via VAT on the materials, partly on corporation tax, partly on income tax, and partly on all the same in the local economy as workers spend locally. Or does that not fit the agenda of the Boris-haters? Paint it in patriotic colours and name it ‘Independent Britain’.

somerset
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by somerset » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:17 am

Surely there is enough British airways aircraft laid up that he could use one of those ? The aircraft that leaves London city airport to New York would be perfect

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thevulcan
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by thevulcan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:20 am

Remember this is not just Boris force one the aircraft will also be for use by the royal family when they go on official duties.

Ferret
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Ferret » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:22 am

James Cutting wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:46 am
Dan214sqn wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:16 pm
Tongue in cheek figure of speach. Regardless of anyone else's opinion I think it's great news.

You haven't even seen the scheme yet! Let's hope you don't like it. That would be a dilemma otherwise
You're missing the point. Yes, we do moan. However, when the country is about to hit a huge recession is it a wise idea to spend £900k on a jet repaint? This stems further than an aviation enthusiast's "want" for non-grey aircraft, but more about the spending of pointless money (at this moment in time). They were literally going to scrap free school meals for struggling school children, yet not think twice about painting a jet because he doesn't like it.
You realise jets are stripped and repainted every few years as a matter of course, don’t you? How else do you think airframes are checked for corrosion?

Oh wait, you didn’t realise that did you?

d555
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by d555 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:45 am

plmc135 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:35 am
So how much money would we be wasting if the flypast over London takes place today? Why celebrate CDG a man who will not only be remembered for his 1940 speech but also the one in Montreal years later "Vive la Quebec libre".

It is always said that the Reds are an ambassador for the UK so why not a Voyager. it is likely to be seen further afield than a Hawk these days.
Also, not forgetting that CDG effectively pulled France out of NATO in 1966 , until 2009,by insisting that all foreign personnel , equipment and bases be removed from French sovereign territory, thus putting the very existence of NATO under severe threat.
One US diplomat apparently asked him if he also wanted the U.S. to repatriate the dead GI's lying in war graves in France.

On the subject of the Voyagers new colours I think it's about time we had a distinctive looking aircraft to represent the leaders of our nation when on overseas visits, just that it's bad timing, that's all.

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binbrook87
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by binbrook87 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:31 am

I think it's long overdue. A patriotic symbol of Britain to be used by the PM and The Royals around the world will be a great addition. After all it's got to be better than turning up on a grey nondescript tanker? First impressions and all that. Most other countries around the world have official military exec/ aircraft so why not Britain. I think a scheme similar to the old RAF vip VC10/Brittania white over grey with blue cheatline and Union Jack on the tail would look the part.

Agent K
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Agent K » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:57 am

somerset wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:17 am
Surely there is enough British airways aircraft laid up that he could use one of those ? The aircraft that leaves London city airport to New York would be perfect
Would it? really? assume these are your words rather than statement of fact..... Think range? capacity (pax and cargo),? operation? etc. etc. etc. you sure?

Also, minor point, it's owned by BA and will be returning to service at some point in the future.

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Dan214sqn
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Dan214sqn » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:13 am

James Cutting wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:46 am
Dan214sqn wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:16 pm
Tongue in cheek figure of speach. Regardless of anyone else's opinion I think it's great news.

You haven't even seen the scheme yet! Let's hope you don't like it. That would be a dilemma otherwise
You're missing the point. Yes, we do moan. However, when the country is about to hit a huge recession is it a wise idea to spend £900k on a jet repaint? This stems further than an aviation enthusiast's "want" for non-grey aircraft, but more about the spending of pointless money (at this moment in time). They were literally going to scrap free school meals for struggling school children, yet not think twice about painting a jet because he doesn't like it.
We are discussing it on an aviation enthusiast's forum - So my first point of view whilst commenting on the subject here is....as an aviation enthusiast

I'm not going to start on the list of ''Goverment money wasting schemes ''

CHINOOKER
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by CHINOOKER » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:10 pm

TeeJay has it spot on!....Contract with Marshalls/Air Livery would have been signed months ago!. Also both the RAF/MOD would have to look at timescales for taking the aircraft out of service to do this work,similarly Marshalls etc would have to plan it into thier maintenance lines....it's not just a question of "phone up Monday,get painted Wednesday"!! Before being sub contracted BA repainted most of their fleet at Heathrow,and that plan had a "lead time" for every aircraft,of up to a year, given aircraft type/configuration etc! As for the cost of the Voyager re-paint,I think the press are up to their "fake news" again!. Talking to the ex paint shop guys at LHR,they say that to "strip,sand,mask up and respray a 747-400" came in around £250,000 for an 8 day input.. With regard to using civilian airliners etc,yes that is an option,but again at some considerable costs involved for the Government. Also remember that the Voyager will have all the up to date secure comms etc,already built in,something that civil aircraft would not have! I just hope that the new scheme is not as "gaudy" as some doing the rounds on the Internet....time will tell!!

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DanBeeden
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by DanBeeden » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:40 pm

Hopefully it will be named 'Spirit of Barnard Castle'.

slogen51
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by slogen51 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:56 pm

Quality!

Vulcan74
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Vulcan74 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:07 pm

The old RAF VC-10 scheme would be a good choice than the dullness that's around our skies at the moment!! :thumb:

Agent K
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by Agent K » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:24 pm

CHINOOKER wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:10 pm
TeeJay has it spot on!............time will tell!!
Bang on, both of you, working within the global airline business and having spent time in planning, airline paint coats will last for 3, 4 or more years and repainting is planned years ahead in to the operation and maintenance schedule. This is not quite a 2 week "MOT and wash" booking into the shop.

somerset
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Re: RRR607 Voyager ZZ336 (new paint scheme)

Post by somerset » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:52 pm

Agent K wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:57 am
somerset wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:17 am
Surely there is enough British airways aircraft laid up that he could use one of those ? The aircraft that leaves London city airport to New York would be perfect
Would it? really? assume these are your words rather than statement of fact..... Think range? capacity (pax and cargo),? operation? etc. etc. etc. you sure?

Also, minor point, it's owned by BA and will be returning to service at some point in the future.
Was just spitballing an idea , the current climate as it is he won't be flying huge distances , cut away the lackys and leech's , could be perfect haha . Realistically though with BA laying up so many aircraft would renting one to the government be an option , remove the titles and fly as a painted aircraft ? Maybe my stupid mind thinking randomly

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