Bruntingthorpe news

[quid21]

I've seen the possibility of the aviation aspect of Bruntingthorpe being closed mentioned in a thread here, but couldn't see this news update, so thought I'd share the news taken from the bruntingthorpe.com/aviation page:

"Important New Information re the Aviation services at Bruntingthorpe

Please note that, following an acquisition of C.Walton Ltd by Cox Automotive, the Aviation business and Cold War Jets Museum at the Bruntingthorpe site are now closed and will not re-open.

It is recognised that this may be concerning news to some aviation enthusiasts. Cox Automotive is an automotive services business who do not work within the aerospace sector. One of the previous owners of C.Walton Ltd, Mr David Walton, is currently investigating the construction of new buildings adjacent to the LPG ‘Q Shed’ to house some of the collection and safeguard their future on land excluded from the Cox Automotive lease. News of any progress on this front will be released by Mr Walton as and when available.

Subject to the COVID-19 situation at the time, it remains the intention of Cox Automotive to hold the planned Cold War Jets Fast Taxi Day in August. Further information on this will be released much closer to the date.

Please note that due to the COVID-19 situation there is no access to the site currently"

I hope it can be salvaged with enough resources for the LPG Lightnings to continue doing taxi runs, but it doesn't look very positive.

Apologies if it's already posted somewhere, I tried searching

[Discodaz]

I read this too,given the above statement,I have a suspicion the planned fast taxi runs in August will possibly be the very last.
I hope this isn't the case but they do make it clear they want no part in aviation

Daz

[binbrook87]

Really really sad news indeed. Been watching the trickle of statements filtering through over the last month or so, and it does seem to be all over.

Been fortunate to attend many events at bruntingthorpe over the last 20 years or so and this new aqusition seems to be yet another example of the times we live in, where large corporations come in and have total disregard for any historical background or significance and are seemingly unwilling to make any compromises. I know they have a business to run but it is an airfield first and foremost and this should be taken into consideration surely. I'm surprised there was no clause in the sell off of the land to ensure aviation related activities could remain. Seems like they've just rolled in with their size 9s and told everybody to 'eff off'!

I feel sorry for all those organisations that have worked so hard over the years to preserve a golden slice of British aviation. I do hope all the aircraft can be found new homes so they can be enjoyed 'in action' rather than as just static airframes. Events like this where you can walk among jets at close quarters, and be within literary a few yards of real live aircraft are now very very rare indeed and we need to hold onto them as long as possible.

[martin condon]

I know what you mean mate, but when was the last time an aircraft arrived and departed under it's own steam!!!!!!!!!.

[tornado17]

It does state that David Walton is looking at land by the LPG Q shed that is not included in the lease to house other aircraft and safeguard them so there may be opportunities in the future to at least view them up close. Also, it states it is leased so it would be interesting to see how long the lease is for?

[Supra]

Never one to shy away from a radical viewpoint, I give you my thoughts...
1] Bruntingthorpe WAS a unique environment where live preserved aircraft from the past could be seen at close proximity actually moving under their own power.
2] With some increasingly greater degree of co-operation it WAS possible for a seemingly profitable Automotive business to co-exist with the Aviation enterprises. (due in no small way to the Walton family interest?)
3] Cox Automotive have no such sympathy for aviation elements & perhaps only see acres of useful 'wasted' space covered by aircraft that could be occupied by cars. Naturally, car-storage on 100% of the all-weather accessible runway would be a primary requirement.
4] By way of some 'compensation' it appears that David Walton is cultivating a plan to possibly retain some aircraft in an area (possibly covered?) next to the LPG Shed. A magnificent gesture I agree....BUT it would be basically just another 'dead aircraft' collection much like any other Museum. Don't get me wrong, I like Museums for the opportunity to inspect the exhibits & read the information & history display-boards.
5] Whilst I agree that it would be 'better than nothing'....It's NOT even close to what we HAD! Even 'Engine-runs' as events don't quite cut the mustard for me, compared to taxi & runway action... Lightnings & Shackletons excepted!
5]
6] How good would it be that ALL the currently resident individual groups could make just ONE more move to a National Government-backed location with a minimum 50 year lease & sensible rent reviews. Such a location would have to include a sufficiently long & accessible runway in reasonable condition. The effort/expense/damaging elements of dismantling aircraft over & over again to move yet again is both tedious & ridiculous.
7] NFW (No Flipping Way) I hear you say! Not with bigger things like CV-19 to deal with! BUT... There is the thing regarding Government input, stop the 'Furlough Charity' one week earlier than planned & you have sufficient money to make this work? Stop-it a month earlier & you have new Hospital! But that's another subject.
8] You have (whisper!) XH558 'trapped'. Vulcan XL426 at Southend. Vulcan XM655 at Wellesbourne subject to the whim of the airfield owners & Planning Permission. The brilliant collection at Elvington, home of the previous 'Rolling Thunder' events.
Notwithstanding that Volunteer Groups are 'normally' largely located near to their aircraft/projects, it has to provide some surety to have a secure operating base where the Collection can be accessed by the paying public & make income from fast-taxi days & visits, hopefully as a qualifying Charitable Status operation?
9] Pipe-dream? or a reasonable challenge? We need these aircraft to keep moving at one location...NOT between locations!
PS:- Can I be the only one who thinks the offer by CA. for one last event this August is only there because it's more than 99.9% NOT gonna happen?

[jakdaw]

Agree with all supras points a very well laid out argument. Have thought for a long while that a private airfield similar to Brunty but supporting aviation heritage groups first from the out set.

Being local always like the idea of Scampton after closure (even the first time round in the 90s). Space to put up hangars like LPG did at Brunty, plenty of outdoors room for bigger aircraft on old dispersals, HHA already there, airspace still available for Reds, the Dambusters home "saved", the RAF fire engine museum on site and always thought bringing BBMF here would be a good idea freeing up both air and ground space at Coningsby. The idea of an airfield from which flyers, taxiers, restoration projects and aviation themed collections could operate alongside civil operators and still preserve aviation history on the site would/could be a big attraction. Would be truly a unique aviation experience with something as intriguing and as different as Duxford or Hendon. My stumbling block then as now would be a plan for the financial side.

But feel the idea of an aviation experience with stuff moving and active. A based flying school with trial flights, helos flights. Engaging younger people not just to the hobby but to the industry, with a centre for skills like the training scheme at the Michael Beetham centre or VTTS STEM plan.

On a note about Bruntingthorpe, I have enjoyed many visits from their first airshows after 558 arrived, to fast taxi runs to an individual guided tour of the exhibits on the ground by a very interesting gent on a very cold very grey day. So rather than anger at whats happened, thanks for whats been before.

[mushbuster]

Sorry Supra, you lost me at point 3

[roughcutter]

I wholeheartedly concur with Supra & jakdaw's thoughts on this tragic matter, but it's just a pipe dream. Realistically I don't feel optimistic. The problems are finding the finance or sponsorship for a new venue to stage future events. And in today's political minefield of carbon footprints, noise abatement, nimby's, health & safety etc, that new venue will need to tick all the right boxes. Then, if by a miraculous chance such a place is located, there will be the logistical nightmare of the big move/exodus. There will be so little time to act, not helped by this COVID lock-down. Cox Automative have no sentiments, time is money to them, they will want their new acquisition vacated sooner than later at any cost.
Sorry guys, but it just ain't gonna happen.

[SPERX]

When you live in a society in which the cost of everything is known with precision, but the value of anything is immaterial, then this is what you get. Government's first and only priority is to turn redundant airfields into cash - and that means housing developments and the odd business park. When Government chooses to operate as a "business" rather than as a facilitator of the geater good, then Government is not going to facilitate a National aviation site. Just look at the state they have let Hendon get into - irreplaceable artefacts such as the Beverley scrapped and so on. Operating as a "business" Government will always want to turn public assets into hard cash - hence they will build houses over Scampton.

The sad reality is that there is not much profit to be had from aviation enthusiasm. Back in the day "Open Days" and "Air Fetes" were in reality propaganda vehicles -keeping the taxpayer on board as billions were spent confronting the Eastern Bloc. Since then it has been increasingly hard to generate Government support for big, extravagant airshows until you end up with the embarrassing farce of Waddington 2014 where there were more privately owned / foreign fast jets than UK Military ones. Shoreham has probably dealt a death blow to mass public events being put on by non-geovernmental organisers.

I do agree that a National Aviation Historic Centre would be ideal. Consolidate the three or four big collections into one National Collection. If that could be done with a co-located runway then maybe taxy runs would be possible - but where? I believe Elvington remains in MoD hands but is on a long-term lease to a private individual. The ASP and the runway are enormous. York is 2 hrs from London by train. I do not think its local roads are any worse than Bruntingthorpe's.

Its a pipedream however.

[quid21]

*If* they could be moved, why not absorb the running aircraft into the Imperial War Museum at Duxford where a runway long enough for a B-52 exists. There is space for a hangar part way along the line of hangars (was that where the Battle of Britain hangar was blown up?).

They could have their own Cold War jets day and engine run ups.

Just a dream I know, but for me Duxford being an active airfield with shows already and the noise associated with it would seem a sensible choice, the only requirement is to move them all and house them. Would make the Q sheds a waste of our money though..... but not impossible to move them again! Given the money. Heritage Lottery fund with the emphasis on Heritage, and the benefit for many years of seeing what are generally regarded as museum relics doing run ups and runway jaunts at one of the best museums in the country.

Then again how about the Cold War museum at RAF Cosford - neaby runway, occasional airshows.......

[Mike]

*If* they could be moved, why not absorb the running aircraft into the Imperial War Museum at Duxford where a runway long enough for a B-52 exists.

The B-52 (and Concorde) both landed at Duxford before the M11 was built across the runway.

[Nighthawke]

I am fairly sure that Duxford is not B-52 capable. That was before the M11 was built. Prepared to be proven wrong though.

Edit - Mike best me to it.

Re the hangar gap, yes it was due to the Battle if Britain film destroying it during filming. "Don't yell at me Mister Warwick!" Suzannah York in uniform

[roughcutter]

CWJ at Brunty in May was for me the season opener, don't know if anyone held similar sentiments, I personally felt that the occasion took over from where Mildenhall Air Fete left off. A poor substitute admittedly, CWJ wasn't a massive event by any means, but it had it's own magic, virtually everyone who attended was either an enthusiast or an RAF Veteran. The stalls (what few were available) were ran by preservation societies/volunteers, there were no tat stalls or crappy fairgrounds full of chavs or anything corporate. And you could get a really stonking sausage & bacon butty there too! It was good to wander around the various airframes/projects, watching the old boys in their filthy overalls enthusiastically pottering about, the smell of paraffin/oil comes to mind. And that's the really sad thing about all this, the effort, the many long hours, dedication and shear hard work that these guys put into resurrecting and preserving those wonderful aircraft. Remember the massive fundraising campaign to save the Wattisham QRA Shed for the Lightnings, all the work put in for it's reconstruction. At the stroke of a pen, counts for absolutely nothing. It's bl00dy heart breaking

[Doughnut]

Bruntingthorpe did have a good business plan and a continuing aviation future. Several things have stopped it happening. I brief timeline of events.

1) David Walton (and family) save the Vulcan and gave XH558 a good home for many years before plans were hatched, by others, to return it to airworthy condition.
2) The Walton family business provided hangars to restore XH558, they passed ownership to VTTS, it flew never to return, a sad day and possibly the start of the end ?
3) VTTS and Heritage Lottery pump millions into one aircraft.
4) Plans were made to have a "Cold War Museum" at Bruntingthorpe to bring together Lightning, Buccaneer and all the other groups together. The Local Authority refused permission and Heritage Lottery would not support it because it had already pumped millions into XH558 and Cosford.
5) Bruntingthorpe were continually fighting the Local Authority and the NIBBY landowners who did not want any form of aviation actively, limiting the opening hours of the small museum and the number of running days, even motor sport days were restricted.
6) General airfield operations severely limited and the use of the airfield for private flying, aviation storage, maintenance and reclaim (scrapping) also restricted. Again by the Local Authority and NIBBY who feared expansion into commercial freight and scheduled services. Something I doubt the runway could have supported.
7) The writing was on the wall when the aircraft reclaim business was transferred elsewhere.
8) The airfield owners have a business to run, many obstacles have been put in their way to stop that business including aviation.

Just to say that theses are my personal views and I am happy to stand corrected.
Paul

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Bruntingthorpe did have a good business plan and a continuing aviation future. Several things have stopped it happening. I brief timeline of events.

1) David Walton (and family) save the Vulcan and gave XH558 a good home for many years before plans were hatched, by others, to return it to airworthy condition.
2) The Walton family business provided hangars to restore XH558, they passed ownership to VTTS, it flew never to return, a sad day and possibly the start of the end ?
3) VTTS and Heritage Lottery pump millions into one aircraft.
4) Plans were made to have a "Cold War Museum" at Bruntingthorpe to bring together Lightning, Buccaneer and all the other groups together. The Local Authority refused permission and Heritage Lottery would not support it because it had already pumped millions into XH558 and Cosford.
5) Bruntingthorpe were continually fighting the Local Authority and the NIBBY landowners who did not want any form of aviation actively, limiting the opening hours of the small museum and the number of running days, even motor sport days were restricted.
6) General airfield operations severely limited and the use of the airfield for private flying, aviation storage, maintenance and reclaim (scrapping) also restricted. Again by the Local Authority and NIBBY who feared expansion into commercial freight and scheduled services. Something I doubt the runway could have supported.
7) The writing was on the wall when the aircraft reclaim business was transferred elsewhere.
8) The airfield owners have a business to run, many obstacles have been put in their way to stop that business including aviation.

Just to say that theses are my personal views and I am happy to stand corrected.
Paul

Great post Paul. Very true on pretty much every point. There is a lot, as you say, that can be pinned on the “Vulcan project” as to why this has failed. Add the council’s oat and you can see why the motivation drained away.

[quid21]

*If* they could be moved, why not absorb the running aircraft into the Imperial War Museum at Duxford where a runway long enough for a B-52 exists.

The B-52 (and Concorde) both landed at Duxford before the M11 was built across the runway.

I never knew that!

Looks like Duxfords runway is something like 4800 ft long compared to nearly 10,000 ft at Bruntingthorpe. I guess if the burner run was halved it might work

[Richard B]

It does state that David Walton is looking at land by the LPG Q shed that is not included in the lease to house other aircraft and safeguard them so there may be opportunities in the future to at least view them up close. Also, it states it is leased so it would be interesting to see how long the lease is for?

10 years lease from what can be gathered from some of the information.

[Richard B]

Bruntingthorpe did have a good business plan and a continuing aviation future. Several things have stopped it happening. I brief timeline of events.

1) David Walton (and family) save the Vulcan and gave XH558 a good home for many years before plans were hatched, by others, to return it to airworthy condition.
2) The Walton family business provided hangars to restore XH558, they passed ownership to VTTS, it flew never to return, a sad day and possibly the start of the end ?
3) VTTS and Heritage Lottery pump millions into one aircraft.
4) Plans were made to have a "Cold War Museum" at Bruntingthorpe to bring together Lightning, Buccaneer and all the other groups together. The Local Authority refused permission and Heritage Lottery would not support it because it had already pumped millions into XH558 and Cosford.
5) Bruntingthorpe were continually fighting the Local Authority and the NIBBY landowners who did not want any form of aviation actively, limiting the opening hours of the small museum and the number of running days, even motor sport days were restricted.
6) General airfield operations severely limited and the use of the airfield for private flying, aviation storage, maintenance and reclaim (scrapping) also restricted. Again by the Local Authority and NIBBY who feared expansion into commercial freight and scheduled services. Something I doubt the runway could have supported.
7) The writing was on the wall when the aircraft reclaim business was transferred elsewhere.
8) The airfield owners have a business to run, many obstacles have been put in their way to stop that business including aviation.

Just to say that theses are my personal views and I am happy to stand corrected.
Paul

Great post Paul. Very true on pretty much every point. There is a lot, as you say, that can be pinned on the “Vulcan project” as to why this has failed. Add the council’s oat and you can see why the motivation drained away.

They also have problems with the numbers of car transporters on the roads being a problem for the locals also. Like anywhere, anything you do you will get complaints. The locals have to be careful.
They only have to look a few miles up the rd, where not so long ago stood another long runway next to a quiet town of Lutterworth.

Now on that Runway that was old RAF Bitteswell is Magna park, a massive distribution warehouse park. on the A5, to M1
and Lutterworth as grown with big housing developments all round the place.

[Vulcanone]

The B-52 landed in 1983, after the M11 was finished