Ladders at Waddington

[andygolfer]

I just noticed one of the entries in this month's competition 'resolute in their perseverance' of people standing in the rain at Waddington. At least two people on ladders right against the hedge yet those standing unaided by ladders having their views obscured by the elevated people at the front , that's being REALLY resolute in their perseverance.

I just wonder why people see the need to stand on a ladder right in front of others when the hedge is clearly low enough for those on terra firma to see over it anyway? It just seems rather inconsiderate to me, even if they were there first surely there is no need for a ladder in those circumstances?

Is it a military trend as I never see that at a civilian venue?
andy

[Vulcanone]

If like me you are a tad vertically challenged...Then if you stand at the fence now (like I have on and off since the 70s) The hedge is still a tad high even when cut. Even standing at the edge of the A15 verge its still currently hedge with wheels shots.

The only reason folks were (presumably) not on larger step ladders was due to our Middle Eastern friends participation. Prior to Cobra Warrior nobody was really bothered about folks on large ladders even on the none airshow days

As for the ladders in the way of others. Well if you choose to shoot landing shots from the WAVE what do you expect.

[POL]

At least two people on ladders right against the hedge yet those standing unaided by ladders having their views obscured by the elevated people at the front , that's being REALLY resolute in their perseverance.

Easy way to not be stood behind people with ladders - get there earlier.

[andygolfer]

At least two people on ladders right against the hedge yet those standing unaided by ladders having their views obscured by the elevated people at the front , that's being REALLY resolute in their perseverance.

Easy way to not be stood behind people with ladders - get there earlier.

agreed but I was more interested in the need for ladders in the first place, the perspective of the photo suggested (at least to me) that it was possible to see over the hedge without the need for one, Vulcanone (thanks for the reply) has dispelled that possibility at least for photography.

andy

[Dan214sqn]

realistically you needed some elevation

the exercise is over and still moaning about ladders at waddington

[Nighthawke]

Moaning? Seemed like a civil question expecting a civil answer. I thought only civil aircraft were not allowed on this forum.

[Mike]

agreed but I was more interested in the need for ladders in the first place, the perspective of the photo suggested (at least to me) that it was possible to see over the hedge without the need for one, Vulcanone (thanks for the reply) has dispelled that possibility at least for photography.

andy

Andy, I have met you and (with the greatest of respect ) you would definitely have needed a step ladder to see over the hedge.
It was trimmed just before the exercise and even spotters that are over six feet tall were having problems along most of the length of it for shots of aircraft on the ground.

[GVLCN]

Personally I’d say it’s unrealistic to travel these days to a base without a pair of steps, especially if you are photographing! I always use steps as I want the best shot possible.

[jagmadandy]

Steps are a neccessity in the spotting and photography game. As for Waddington specifically, ladders have been used responsibly there for over 20 years on the side of the A15 and have only been highlighted a problem during this recent shambles of an exercise, being heavily criticised on social media. You can get some views from standing on the verge but you get the hedge/fence/barbed wire in your shots so if you want a decent taxi picture steps are the way to go.

[Vulcan74]

Well back in the 70's when the Vulcans were based their and if you gone on the A15 and drove past 9 squadron dispersal. You would not have needed step ladders as their was only a 4FT fence between the Vulcans & the A15!!

[Mike]

Well back in the 70's when the Vulcans were based their and if you gone on the A15 and drove past 9 squadron dispersal. You would not have needed step ladders as their was only a 4FT fence between the Vulcans & the A15!!

I remember those days very well and no need for any step ladders, that's because there wasn't that pesky hedge that rarely gets cut!

[andygolfer]

Well i'm glad I asked now - what a reception I've received for asking a genuine question

I made it clear in my first post that it appeared to me from the relevant photo that the several people without ladders seemed to be getting a good view so I reasonably asked why it was necessary to have ladders up against the fence (thus blocking their view) maybe they liked the rear view of someone up a ladder but I really can't judge that.

I got a perfectly rational and polite answer explaining the true perspective on the ground (the photo angle didn't really concur with that but I can now understand it better) and as such I happily (at that time) accepted it. Following on from there I seem to have received criticism for raising it though - and apparently it's already been discussed. I've not seen any other mention of problems here or elsewhere (and there are one or two fora where mention of ladders would normally stir up a hornets' nest).

I don't know Waddington OR the WAVE hence my local knowledge is zero but the attitude of some seems to be that everybody should know every detail of every location before setting out for a day's enjoyment. I do almost entirely civil (as some of you may know) and I do fully research locations at the airports I frequent or plan to frequent (my guides to Stansted and Heathrow bear testament to that) and I have to say that the attitude amongst the civil community is far more pleasant than here. I do very little military photography (one or two visits a year to Mildenhall and Lakenheath suffice my desire for the grey stuff) and if military is that unfriendly then I shall give it up all together. I just didn't expect the reaction I received.

As for ladders in front of people, there are a couple of places I take one(about 4ft high) but I always stay back from the fence (there is a 3m rule at Stansted anyway) but that does allow anyone without such an appendage to stand in front of me as well so I feel that is a reasonable courtesy, I even offer them the use of my ladder as well if i'm not on it for a while. so that does pose the question (and there may be a perfectly rational answer) why if using a ladder do people stand right up to the fence? We all want decent photos but surely for a moment we could also realise that others want those shots as well and could be a bit courteous without it spoiling our own photos - it isn't that difficult.
Andy

[Mike]

Very well said, Andy.

[Thunder]

Unfortunately you won’t get anywhere with the majority of ladders users. Yes there are places where ladders are a must, but to plonk yourself right at the fence when there isn’t a need to and getting in other people’s way is just rude and arrogant. The same applies to those that turn up at airshows and think it’s their right to commandeer 5 meters of fenceline by putting up windbreakers then erecting ladders, and setting up camp within.

[reach1]

Agree with you Andy well said I’ve been spotting over 40years now at. Sculthorpe,Marham, Lakenheath, Mildenhall, Never had any issues with ladders as there were very few in the early days Now they are everywhere and some spotters don’t care if they
Block you out as long as they get there photos and Fairford it’s chairs and tents by the fence on arrival and departing days.

Jim

[TB1]

Civil questions rarely get civil answers on here, Andy.

Especially where the dreaded photographers with ladders are mentioned.

Better off sticking on your forum, after all you get a few decent things in Stansted!!

[Campbell89]

Unfortunately you won’t get anywhere with the majority of ladders users. Yes there are places where ladders are a must, but to plonk yourself right at the fence when there isn’t a need to and getting in other people’s way is just rude and arrogant. The same applies to those that turn up at airshows and think it’s their right to commandeer 5 meters of fenceline by putting up windbreakers then erecting ladders, and setting up camp within.

I completely agree, if people insist on using ladders then surely a bit of courtesy is a must and erect them behind others without. I’d imagine most ladder users will be able to see above those that aren’t... otherwise they need some better ones!

[Yunglee]

Just an alternative perspective...

I used a small platform by the hedge at Waddington during the exercise. It's important to note that the ground by the hedge is lower than the just by the road side, so most people using one or two steps weren't that much higher (some might have been higher from the photo's posted in various places). The reason for being so close to the hedge is to get those taxiing shots that simply aren't possible when stood on the verge. I made a point of being mindful of who was around me and leaving space either side of me for people to move in.

Actually it would have been far worse for people to be using steps by the A15 verge as the extra elevation would have blocked out the view from the opposite side of the road and there was plenty of people across the road, including myself at various times.

Despite Laddergate on Facebook the actual mood and atmosphere at the fence during Cobra Warrior was really pleasant and friendly. There's also a few people that might give a different impression or do something without thinking of others, but generally it was really good. Case in point during the 2nd and 3rd week people were stopped from going further than the traffic lights on the A15. So when aircraft were landing on 20 it got busy by the lights. But people just moved around, found a space and got the shots they wanted. I saw no arguing, moaning, unhappy people just lots of smiles...and folks reviewing photos or updating logs. Happy days.

Lee.

[Evergreen 44]

Hi Andy,
Agreed, very reasonable question and as already noted most people would generally slot-in with those around them by taking into account the space available.
At most of the military airfields photographic vantage points vary with runway in use and the best light during the day so having the option of steps is essential to make sure you can make the best of things.
As for ' ladder etiquette ' I would say that in my experience the vast majority of people are accommodating enough and having had the temporary loan of other kind people's steps for an occasional shot when I did not have ladders on the day I have made a point of giving others that opportunity when I can to return the favour.
I find that if you extend courtesy then most of the time it is reciprocated.
In short, don't give up spotting the 'grey stuff' as the result of the unrepresentative types who may not be so christian-spirited.
As in life you will always find an element in any population who are un-cooperative but the good outweighs bad every time.
Enjoy your next trip out with your ladders ☺

[LM47]

I found that on the day I was there most people were considerate.One guy even let me use his ladder. Despite not being in the ladder game I realised that I may be blocking the view for others around me so I checked and asked if I was in the way before I used it.
I guess I was lucky in not having any hassle. Mind you I don't get south too often. Pity the weather was rubbish on the only day I could be there.
Slightly off topic. If the A15 was closed,where on earth was all the traffic going,especially the artics which appeared in a few of my landing shots!

Like any hobby there are a few who give us a bad name and like any other forum there are those ready to shoot the messenger!