Current RAF aircraft

[Rugbyref]

If everyone thinks the numbers are bad now, wait until after October 31, especially if we leave the EU with no deal.

.....when we will have saved £39bn.

That's not a dividend because we benefit more from being in than out. Current estimates suggest £95 billion of extra borrowing per year will be needed after no-deal Brexit, that's nearly a trillion over a decade. Plus not paying the £39 billion will weaken any trading relationship we try to establish as we become a defaulter.

This is meant to be an aviation forum. Please keep your minority political views to yourself, and polite.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

To hit some trains in a yard:

circa 1945 - 100 bombers, 500 crew, 1,000 bombs (plus fighter cover)
circa 2019 - 1 drone, 1 chap in a shed

I guess that'll be why.

And if 50% of the 100 failed to get there at least 50% might be able to do some damage to the train set.

If 100% of the 1 failed to get there who knows what Thomas and the Fat Controller could get up to.

Numbers still matter, it’s just a pity the bean counters in government don’t seem to realise that, and that the top brass continue to say yes while on their way to their lovely pension, knighthood and directorship of ABC Military Industries (made up name).

Probably very little, as something else would probably get them within a matter of seconds.

[Nighthawke]

This is meant to be an aviation forum. Please keep your minority political views to yourself, and polite.

Well to be fair, most of TonyO's post was an assessment of potential budgetary outcomes which will have an impact on UK military aviation. I can't see any impoliteness either.

[Agent K]

.....when we will have saved £39bn.

That's not a dividend because we benefit more from being in than out. Current estimates suggest £95 billion of extra borrowing per year will be needed after no-deal Brexit, that's nearly a trillion over a decade. Plus not paying the £39 billion will weaken any trading relationship we try to establish as we become a defaulter.

This is meant to be an aviation forum. Please keep your minority political views to yourself, and polite.

a. you started it, b. there was nothing impolite about it, and c. they're facts, not views and not falsehoods unlike your original statement.

[Rugbyref]

Actually it was started on Weds 3rd at 5.39 pm by Tony O. And it is not a fact that we benefit more from being in, and we don’t become a defaulter as legally we owe not one penny. So please desist.

[RubyRoo]

Hi Rugby. I appreciate all of your posts on aviation related matters but when it comes to the political ones, they aren't so good unfortunately.

Agent K has already correctly tried to steer you to the actual facts of the matter. Regardless of whether you believe or don't believe we will be better off outside of the European Union, the facts and projections (which are available in multiple credible publications) all suggest that the United Kingdom will be far worse off. To lessen the economic impact and fulfil current obligations, the United Kingdom needed to agree a withdrawal settlement with the EU, to which £39 billion was the agreed cost. If this agreement is not paid, then the economic consequences will be even more dire. £39 billion is not even a drop in the ocean compared to the loss of what a no deal Brexit would bring to this country.

So instead of making this a political thread as I promised myself I would try not to do, when we relate this back to defence spending, you genuinely have to be a mad man if you truly believe there will be extra money for anything, let alone defence, if the UK leaves without a deal.

Why believe me though when you can just read the facts for yourself? Or do facts not suit your agenda?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lbsbusines ... 7b6986383e

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rms-brexit

Or how about Her Majesty's Governments own economic impact report?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... is__1_.pdf

What's a bigger number Rugby. Is it £39 billion or 7.6% of GDP?

I'll let you have a think. Please don't comment on things you know absolutely nothing about.

You were right on one thing though. It was a minority view. The majority voted for Brexit, but they didn't vote for mass economic suicide.

[C24]

As we are unlikely ever to go to war on our own but to act in conjunction with the US of A, we could consider a variation of the already accepted PFI programme.
Put simplistically, the States supply us with all the equipment and we supply the personnel.
Everyone bangs on about the “Special Relationship “, we have shot ourselves in both feet with our other nearest allies, so we should apply to join the US and reverse the George III debacle.
Just think of the fun involved for our political classes.

Time for my medication, then off into the padded cell.

[Blackjack56]

I'm not quite sure how this thread has got so political,after all we're a group of like minded people with a shared love of military aviation,one thing's for sure though as C24 says our once proud airforce is slowly turning into a tiny force armed with predominantly american types with all the cost implications that has,after all the so called"special relationship"is all about the good ol' american Dollar and at the end of the day we are a client state of the american empire.rant over,i'll put my soapbox back in the cupboard now !.

[100arw]

Blackjack56,
What British designed and manufactured aircraft would you like to see the UK military using?
P

[Nighthawke]

TSR.2

[Mike]

Now you're talking, what a beast the TSR2 is/was.

[Vulcan74]

Aircraft then were more fascinating to see than the grey things in the sky now!!

[22A]

TSR.2

Dunno if true, but I was once told the only advantage Tornado had over TSR2 was a shorter take off run. If engines were available, the one at Duxford would never be permitted to take to the air as there would be soooo many red faces in Whitehall.
One officer did soften this though stating TSR2's computers would have been an embarassment by the late 70's meaning a refurb of the entire fleet.

[Blackjack56]

We all know that developing an aircraft solely in one country is too expensive,the days of a truly british military aircraft are long gone however we have developed some fairly decent aircraft with other european countries such as the Jaguar Tornado Typhoon and to a lesser extent the Atlas so surely it's not beyond us to once again share costs and develop rivals to american designs,it's just a shame that politically there are nations we can't do business with,i wonder what a Sukhoi 30 would look like wearing RAF roundels ?.

[Vulcanone]

Tempest (assuming it gets past the FSM stage)….

[Hawkwind26]

I remember watching a black and white "live" grainy TV film of TSR2 taking to the air, wonderful as was the 2 day coverage of Farnborough with the gravelly voiced Raymond Baxter. Went to Dunsfold to watch the Kestrel hovering. We were pioneers as a nation, my father engineering for Hawker Siddley. Fond memories.

[John flightpath]

I remember going to Cosford a few years ago and there was a bloke in a wheelchair sat there, mesmorised by the TSR2. He had flown in the TSR2 back in the day. What a story ..

He was telling me that some of the ideas on TSR 2 were taken forward into the Concorde development.

Cheers
John 'flightpath'.

[2e1var]

Harriers that we just didn't need, it was very sad to see them go, but the decision was correct.

You're brave !

[22A]

We all know that developing an aircraft solely in one country is too expensive,i wonder what a Sukhoi 30 would look like wearing RAF roundels ?.

The Russians said that when the F18 entered service McD and their sub contractors all published magazine articles about problem met and resolved in developing the a/c. The Embassy in Washington sent a guy to the corner news agent and as a result saved one billion (didn't say dollars or roubles) in developing their next aircraft.

[GUNHOG]

India meanwhile still receives millions from the UK in overseas aid every year, and besides a substantial air force has an active space program.

Depends what you mean by 'give to India'. The government of India now gets no foreign aid from us, see this post from ours:
https://dfidnews.blog.gov.uk/2018/12/27 ... overnment/

Reading the article we still actually 'give' India £98 million a year though and yes it would be interesting to see what other countries get from us also!