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RAF and the DDay celebrations

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PeteHemsley
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RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by PeteHemsley » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:45 pm

Time to air my inside rage. Every single day I'm watching the images roll in from almost every European country and of course the US airforce showing off their specially painted aircraft for DDay and I'm soooo bitterly disappointed that the RAF have done absolutely naff all.

I honestly think this is the most disrespectful act of the UK armed forces. It honestly upsets me that even the nation's with next to no funding are painting up and celebrating the anniversary as it should be celebrated.

Punkrunner62
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by Punkrunner62 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:57 pm

Hi Pete, couldn't agree more.
Cheers.

verreli
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by verreli » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:36 pm

Agreed, incredibly disrespectful to the veterans that gave so much for our present way of life. This seems to be deliberate though. Last year there was lack of effort to celebrate the historically significant anniversary of the RAF and even today at Queen's birthday flypast, I'd have a tenner on the Queen's thoughts being something along the lines of "Is that it".

EGVP
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by EGVP » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:37 pm

No other nation has a dedicated memorial flight. Worth remembering that.

MRTT
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by MRTT » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:45 pm

verreli wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:36 pm
Agreed, incredibly disrespectful to the veterans that gave so much for our present way of life. This seems to be deliberate though.
Are you for real? Is that of course, aside from the 25 aircraft flypast in Portsmouth, alongside several at memorial services across Northern France?

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Hurrican
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by Hurrican » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:54 pm

Hi peter again i agree just shows you what some people high up think of our brave and departed servicemen from many nations DISAPPONITED :@ well done lakenheath :thumb:

verreli
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by verreli » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:39 pm

MRTT wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:45 pm
verreli wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:36 pm
Agreed, incredibly disrespectful to the veterans that gave so much for our present way of life. This seems to be deliberate though.
Are you for real? Is that of course, aside from the 25 aircraft flypast in Portsmouth, alongside several at memorial services across Northern France?
I felt it was lacklustre. The reds are always good value but are flying aircraft very much in the twilight of their operational life. Take them away and would it have been memorable? There was no specific formation to signify the event. Without doubt, more effort could have been made. Even a few D-Day stripes would have shown some effort at minimal cost.

I was also in London for the 100 flypast. Other than the Typhoon 100 and again reds, that was disappointing too. The people around me were getting bored with the sections being so spread out.

MRTT
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by MRTT » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:40 pm

Alright, fair enough. Apologies for the perhaps aggressive nature of my original response. :thumb:

Completely agree with the lack of special markings, that was particularly disappointing.

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PeteHemsley
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by PeteHemsley » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:48 pm

EGVP wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:37 pm
No other nation has a dedicated memorial flight. Worth remembering that.
Absolutely grateful for the bbmf, but we also have many squadrons that I'm sure had some involvement in DDay and the dates surrounding, much like every other nation who fought together. Those that did serve at the time have painted a special, actually some.more than a singular to celebrate or commemorate.

We have done nothing. We should be the ones doing all we can to show support, but we aren't.

verreli
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by verreli » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:20 pm

@MRTT: No problem. Many would no doubt agree with your original sentiments and that's OK too.

In my opinion we should be leading these events. They are a showcase for our history, world history. I so much want to say 'wow' but each and every time I can only say 'if only'.

Rob666
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by Rob666 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:31 pm

I have to agree with verreli and Pete, we should be leading these events/show more support, the RAF sadly just don’t seem to make the effort anymore. How difficult to have some D-DAY marks on a number of frames. You only have to look at other countries to see the effort they have made and not on one frame many. And well done on USAF for the flypast at Duxford very special.

Rob

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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by reheat » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:18 pm

There seems to be plenty of money to spend on Annual Tiger Meet special paint jobs, and likewise for Annual RIAT participants, so why not this event? A real shame.
Regards,

Steve.

YellowBelly
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by YellowBelly » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:25 pm

whilst I can sympathise with the thoughts on this thread, especially as I am an avid aviation fan myself, the stark reality is that the money for the RAF just isnt there. The Force is continually seeking continuous improvement in an effort to save money, money that actually needs to be saved.

If you knew at the attempts to save money by a professional force, it would make your toes curl, this is due to unforeseen circumstances that is causing the Force to tighten on its expenditure, for example, the long term temporary closure of ASI to the Voyager force.

No one knows the struggles better than those that are currently serving, over the past 20 years the terms of service between the Force and its people have slowly but surely degraded and if you look at the example of RAF Scampton, the infrastructure is also suffering severely.

Why did the RAF100 celebration seem relatively low key? money, pure and simple, i think the funds allocated was less than 10 million quid, that doesnt get you much in the grand scheme of things.

If I am brutally honest, we should actually be grateful we still have an Air Force.

Red-Eye-Knight
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by Red-Eye-Knight » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:48 pm

I was dissapointed too with the RAFs none attempt at painting any aircraft, why could they not have done something like they did with the Typhoon back in 2015? Poor again from the RAF just about as bad as those RAF 100 stickers.

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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by Red-Eye-Knight » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:50 pm

verreli wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:39 pm
MRTT wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:45 pm
verreli wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:36 pm
Agreed, incredibly disrespectful to the veterans that gave so much for our present way of life. This seems to be deliberate though.
Are you for real? Is that of course, aside from the 25 aircraft flypast in Portsmouth, alongside several at memorial services across Northern France?
I felt it was lacklustre. The reds are always good value but are flying aircraft very much in the twilight of their operational life. Take them away and would it have been memorable? There was no specific formation to signify the event. Without doubt, more effort could have been made. Even a few D-Day stripes would have shown some effort at minimal cost.

I was also in London for the 100 flypast. Other than the Typhoon 100 and again reds, that was disappointing too. The people around me were getting bored with the sections being so spread out.

The reason they are so spread out is so they are not flying through dirty air, If they were close together it makes it harder for the pilots to fly the aircraft.

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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by CHINOOKER » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:16 am

In my opinion,even if we didn't have the money/inclination to paint one or more aircraft in anniversary schemes,why not just have a formation of Hawks or Typhoons in a "75". Fairly easy to do,gives all the pilots etc some formation practice,and would have been a fitting tribute!

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PeteHemsley
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by PeteHemsley » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:27 am

YellowBelly wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:25 pm
whilst I can sympathise with the thoughts on this thread, especially as I am an avid aviation fan myself, the stark reality is that the money for the RAF just isnt there. The Force is continually seeking continuous improvement in an effort to save money, money that actually needs to be saved.

If you knew at the attempts to save money by a professional force, it would make your toes curl, this is due to unforeseen circumstances that is causing the Force to tighten on its expenditure, for example, the long term temporary closure of ASI to the Voyager force.

No one knows the struggles better than those that are currently serving, over the past 20 years the terms of service between the Force and its people have slowly but surely degraded and if you look at the example of RAF Scampton, the infrastructure is also suffering severely.

Why did the RAF100 celebration seem relatively low key? money, pure and simple, i think the funds allocated was less than 10 million quid, that doesnt get you much in the grand scheme of things.

If I am brutally honest, we should actually be grateful we still have an Air Force.
Trust me, I know what the feelings are like in the armed forces right now and the feeling inside the fence is much more somber than that of the outside! However, nobody is that strapped for financing, well apart from the Spanish air force that are really struggling and even they have painted an a400 special!

verreli
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by verreli » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:56 am

Red-Eye-Knight wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:50 pm
The reason they are so spread out is so they are not flying through dirty air, If they were close together it makes it harder for the pilots to fly the aircraft.
True to a degree. There are things you can do such as stepping altitude, looser formation, combining aircraft in a mix formation. Even a 20 second rather than 30 second separation. For example, they flew a Vic of 9 Tornado. Why not have a loose diamond swept formation for more spectacle? A combined heavy formation? What is lacking is imagination, a sense of theatre. i.e. if you're going to do something, don't just pay lip service to it, do it to the standards we know they are capable of.

As for money for the D Day bands, There is no design required, just a few strips of white vinyl at a few thousand quid. I'm sure there would be enough volunteers to spend a few hours applying it. My beef is never with those on the front line or even with junior management, it's with the decision makers and their motivations. This wasn't something that was forgotten, it was a decision to not do something when they knew others were making an effort. Similar to last year with the pathetic 100 sticker.

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Tooks
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by Tooks » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:28 am

This country commits a significant sum of money and a large amount of resources to keeping a fleet of genuine WW2 aircraft flying as a permanent tribute in the shape of the BBMF.

That’s no mean feat when you consider all the other pressures on the RAF and what else it could be doing with the money.

The reasons why you can’t just stick some vinyl stripes onto an aircraft are many, and in any event would even then probably be considered a half hearted effort by those determined to see wrong in things.

The RAF have operational commitments, and the infrastructure is naturally geared towards keeping the operational fleet airworthy and at readiness, and that has to be the priority, often it’s not just about the money.

It’s great that many other ‘smaller’ nations found the time and money to do D-Day re-paints, but I’d argue they are less committed than the RAF and don’t have their own memorial flight to fund either.

The Queens birthday flyoast was curtailed by the weather unfortunately, something nobody has control over.

The BBMF is precious, it is also quite rightly the focus of remembrance for the RAF, leaving the operational side to focus on what they need to do. Personally, i find the addition of invasion stripes on aircraft that weren’t even conceived at the time a little ‘cheap’, but maybe that’s just me.

verreli
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Re: RAF and the DDay celebrations

Post by verreli » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:47 am

I'm not sure you could say the USAF is less committed? The BBMF is a great institution and gives much joy to many, especially those old enough to remember the aircraft operationally. The BBMF is a choice. It isn't the only way. The USAF has a heritage flight and don't own the Mustangs that often fly in formation with in-service machines. I'm not saying that is better, just that there are other options.

It won't be long before airframe hours on the T1's run out. Imagine ceremonial events without the Reds. Is that progress?

UK defence spending is c. £49,700,000,000 pa to cover all services. As I've stated before, it is a choice how you spend it. e.g 2x aircraft carriers 6.2bn, 48x F35 9.1bn, roll of vinyl £16.99, tin of dulux non-drip gloss £12.99. Even taking those two large programmes in one fiscal year, that leaves 69% of the annual budget.

As for invasion stripes on modern machines being 'cheap'. That's one perspective. Another is that the original intent was to identify friendly forces with a common symbol. In the present day we have the Americans, Belgians, Norwegians, etc all showing solidarity and we are conspicuous by our absence.

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