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Cold Turkey anyone....

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Vulcanone
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Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by Vulcanone » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:25 am

Buying stuff from the Russians and USA has its pitfalls.... :whistle:


http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... NwlVQEAa-s

welshandy
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by welshandy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:14 pm

If Turkey continue with the S400 deal/ties with Russia,that imho must surely mean questions will be asked by other NATO members.

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Arthur Tee
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by Arthur Tee » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:24 pm

welshandy wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:14 pm
If Turkey continue with the S400 deal/ties with Russia,that imho must surely mean questions will be asked by other NATO members.
It’s probably the US funding the deal - easy way to get the latest Soviet hardware and then work on the flaws!

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toom317
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by toom317 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:48 am

Arthur Tee wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:24 pm

It’s probably the US funding the deal - easy way to get the latest Soviet hardware and then work on the flaws!
And vice versa, the soviets getting their hands on the F35's techy stuff.
No one gets out of life alive.



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verreli
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by verreli » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:35 am

With that in place, the Russians would have a full radar profile of the F-35 on what is already a very capable anti-aircraft system. Thought you had a stealth jet? Guess the Americans could use different paint on the Turkish jets?

Erdogon: Why are my new jets pink?
Trump: You have the best jets in the world; yes you have; they're awesome. Believe me.
Erdogon: But I want grey jets like yours.
Trump: Your jets aren't pink. Everybody knows your jets aren't pink. Fake news.

Ronald Reagan
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by Ronald Reagan » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:59 am

With Russia having S400 in Syria they must already be able to get a look at any F-35s operating in the region. Might as well let Turkey have F-35 and S400 if they wish rather than alienate them further and risk them leaving NATO. Its up to a sovereign nation state to purchase military equipment from whom they wish.

verreli
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by verreli » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:38 pm

In Syria all the Russian's can do is hope to get a visual or heads up from the Americans that an F35 is operating in the area then scan all frequencies and hope they get a hit. It is stealthy after all. In Turkey they would have all the time they need to fine tune the frequency band and signature (unless the signature is different by using different radar absorbing paint). Unlike my tongue in cheek post above, it doesn't necessarily need to look any different. The paint would just absorb and reflect photons at different energy levels.

As for geo-politics, it has never been possible to purchase from who you want without consequence. In Turkey's case the politics have changed since Erdogon came to power. Alliances can change. Iran after all has F-14's. How willing do you think the US would be to sell the latest toys to them?

Ronald Reagan
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by Ronald Reagan » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:30 pm

I think its better from a western perspective having Turkey as a friend even if on the odd issue it pursues an independent foreign policy than pushing them totally into the Russian/Chinese side. If they should leave they take with them the second strongest conventional forces in the entire NATO alliance. They are also located in a very useful part of the world.

Also logically Russia should be concerned that Turkey and thus NATO/the US would have access to the S400 but seem less paranoid than Washington.

Considering the range of S400 Russian operators in Syria would possibly be able to see Israeli F-35s, RAF F-35s near Cyprus and any other F-35s operating nearby. If they put S400 into Kaliningrad they could also see F-35s operating in other nearby countries if say deployed by the US or if Poland goes ahead and purchases them. They could do this over time and probably learn a lot. Every time an F-35 takes off from a base within range of the S400 they would be able to monitor it.

In the end I am uneasy about Washington dictating to other nations whom they can purchase military equipment from. They even try this with India and threaten sanctions upon nations if they wish to purchase Russian military equipment. Its not the way to make friends but is a sure way to alienate nations and drive them away.

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Thunder
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by Thunder » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:11 pm

For the Russians to pick up an Israeli F35 or any F35 they would have to know it was there to start with, then they would only have a short time in order to scan the area. If Turkey have both systems they would be able to take all the time in the World in order to achieve this.

Another reason for NATO not just Washington, not wanting Turkey to receive the S400 system is the fact that Turkey have publicly stated that they would position the missiles in order to counter any threats from Greece(another NATO partner) despite the fact that Greece having never threatened Turkey and it’s actually Turkey that are carrying out the intimidation/threatening behaviour.

Turkey is now a borderline Dictatorship and in it’s current state has no place in NATO.

dinger
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by dinger » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:47 pm

The RAF F-35s as well as the US F-35s deployed to the region are all fitted with Luneberg Lens reflectors, as evident by the images from press releases. They do not need to fly in total ‘stealth’ mode as the threat in the environment they are flying in is low. Also, if the S400 does pick up a radar return from one of the F-35s, it will be a skewed picture, not giving away the true radar return of a completely stealthy F-35.

Dinger
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welshandy
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Re: Cold Turkey anyone....

Post by welshandy » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:28 pm


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