Glider pilots told to register flights after near-miss with US F-15s

[sjnovis]

Not sure if this has been posted previously, from The telegraph on 11th March

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... -us-f-15s/

[Reach1985]

You have to wonder don’t you...I certainly wouldn’t want to be arguing w/ an F-15!!

[Seahornet1]

... the gliding competition organisers had not put out an official ‘Notice to Airmen’, known to aviators as a NOTAM warning, about unusual air activity, because they believed it was unnecessary due to all of the pilots being local.

That someone organising an aviation activity can be so utterly ignorant of the actual purpose of a Notam beggars belief....


Edit: Airprox report -

https://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploade ... 018212.pdf

[ST24]

... the gliding competition organisers had not put out an official ‘Notice to Airmen’, known to aviators as a NOTAM warning, about unusual air activity, because they believed it was unnecessary due to all of the pilots being local.

That someone organising an aviation activity can be so utterly ignorant of the actual purpose of a Notam beggars belief....


Edit: Airprox report -

https://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploade ... 018212.pdf

Absolutely this!! NOTAMs are for everyone in the air and have been for decades. The club should be shut down for such blatant stupidity.

[Philwinward]

You would think that in this hitech age someone could design a basic transponder that would make a glider visible to ground radar.
Phil

[Andy Marden]

There are plenty of transponders available. Many glider pilots choose not to fit them to save weight/money etc...

[daveyb]

The Glider was in class G airspace!

Class G airspace is open to all aircraft in the UK as far as I am aware (drones maybe another matter).

The MATZ extends 3000ft above the airfield height. The glider was apparently above this in class G airspace so in the eyes of UK air law was doing nothing wrong.

If we are considering 'good practice' then flying in a glider approximately 100ft above a MATZ might be questionable but is not breaking any air law in the UK (as far as I am aware and would like to be corrected if I am wrong).

Just because you are flying a big fast 'cool' aircraft does not in anyway put you in the right. There is indeed a rule in air law that the faster aircraft should give-away to the slower (if indeed they see them).

As for the NOTAM I guess if your competition has some defined turn points you can relate this in a meaningful way for a NOTAM then it should be done. I would like to hear the clubs point of view on this matter and their safety brief for the comp before sending them to public gallows. Stories always have more than one side to them as we are all well aware.

This is not to antagonise anyone but simply to hopefully add a little balance to this very interesting and concerning 'story'.

[ST24]

The Glider was in class G airspace!

Class G airspace is open to all aircraft in the UK as far as I am aware (drones maybe another matter).

The MATZ extends 3000ft above the airfield height. The glider was apparently above this in class G airspace so in the eyes of UK air law was doing nothing wrong.

If we are considering 'good practice' then flying in a glider approximately 100ft above a MATZ might be questionable but is not breaking any air law in the UK (as far as I am aware and would like to be corrected if I am wrong).

Just because you are flying a big fast 'cool' aircraft does not in anyway put you in the right. There is indeed a rule in air law that the faster aircraft should give-away to the slower (if indeed they see them).

As for the NOTAM I guess if your competition has some defined turn points you can relate this in a meaningful way for a NOTAM then it should be done. I would like to hear the clubs point of view on this matter and their safety brief for the comp before sending them to public gallows. Stories always have more than one side to them as we are all well aware.

This is not to antagonise anyone but simply to hopefully add a little balance to this very interesting and concerning 'story'.

Yep, absolutely, totally agree. But this was Thetford, just a few miles from Mildenhall, Lakenheath, STANTA and other low flying routes that have been active for decades. Legal or not, surely just on the side of caution this should have been better documented..

[paddyboy]

Total Doombrain

[ArabJazzie]

There are plenty of transponders available. Many glider pilots choose not to fit them to save weight/money etc...

I thought the use of FLARM was quite widespread throughout the UK these days? Little help though in this case as the Lakenheath set-up didnt include a FLARM receiver! The FLARM receiver is now in place and the glider club have the phone number for the tower.

What i find strange is why the F-15s continued to recover from the South East when the limited information the controllers at Lakenheath had, showed there were several gliders quite close to the east and south of the field.
Arabest,
Geoff.

[Evergreen 44]

FLARM is becoming more widespread and is a relatively quick and affordable able means of making sport/light a/c more visible to ATC and other airspace users.
Re. comment that glider owners do not fit due cost/weight issues, actually more likely not to fit because of battery drain issues but as batteries become more efficient some set-ups include a solar panel to assist charge when in flight.
Where club a/c are fitted with this equipment as standard fit private members are encouraged to follow suit to standardise club operating procedures.
This is generally followed by establishment of a joint working group between club and adjacent military airfield(s) to encourage safer flight (as noted in Airprox report)
Under competition conditions all participants will have their trace scrutinised and infringements or bad airmanship re. Airspace are noted. In other words if any glider pilot decided the comp was more important than safe practice they would be removed from the competition anyway. If met conditions meant the glider strayed into military airspace they can radio to say unable to comply with rules of the air but can communicate their intentions to ATC. In case of radio failure you can change squawk code to cover radio failure.
There are enough good examples of how this whole system works-provided everyone does their bit for compliance.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

You would think that in this hitech age someone could design a basic transponder that would make a glider visible to ground radar.
Phil

Problem: you need to convince the glider operator to pay to fit it and use it and make their glider that tiny bit heavier. Some are sensible, others are not.

In a previous life we got so fed up with random x-country competition glider streams routing through busy airspace (eg the approach/departure lanes of busy training airfields like Cranwell and Wittering). Even getting into their routing websites didn’t help when they changed them at he last minute. They also tended to ignore military MATZs too, preferring to just treat them as the much smaller ATZ; legally correct, but lacking in common sense.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

FLARM is becoming more widespread and is a relatively quick and affordable able means of making sport/light a/c more visible to ATC and other airspace users.

Does FLARM have ground station capability? The airborne version works relatively well although I suspect really only in GA performance aircraft (ie, nothing much quicker).

[Evergreen 44]

Hello Colin,
As far as I am aware it is easy to set up a base staion at the club to boost signal returns for the entire network ( more base stations = better coverage )
Some time ago a friend showed me the website with a typical dipole aerial and Raspberry Pi processor unit as per the adsb feeder station arrangement
I will ask for the website details if you wish to look into it further
It was some time ago and I suspect more up to date equipment/programmes and better coverage is possible these days
Best regards,
Paul

[filmman]

The glider pilots I flew with were very professional. They all carried up to date air maps marked up with restricted air space. Unlike some powered pilots, glider pilots are well aware where they are. You don't have a little fan to drag you out of trouble and you have to allow for changeable adverse weather. The only edge that glider pilots have is they can often hear powered planes, clock them and sometimes avoid them; leaving the powered pilot to continue his oblivious flight. I have seen large passenger jets infringing restricted air space whilst trying to land, sometimes at the correct airfield. You often hear USAF controllers advising Lakenheath/Mildenhall traffic of gliders.
If there is a problem then the CAA should act. Flying in UK airspace is a privilege, not a right. It's getting increasingly crowded and inevitably more dangerous. At least glider pilots are awake at the controls and we only have a pint after landing.
Filmman

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Unlike some powered pilots, glider pilots are well aware where they are.

Unfortunately, some aren't (just like some powered pilots). Or if they are aware of where they are, they are pig-headed and lacking in good airmanship and common sense. Nothing like being Duty Instructor in the tower when a glider comes up to your airfield boundary (in a MATZ) and proceeds to navigate the airfield perimeter at around 1000ft before disappearing merrily off on his way.