FighterControl

hi,

Been reading a few articles on the web and people are saying with the Tornado about to retire, the RAF will lose some abilities in low level bombing.

Just wanted to ask if that is true? I've seen typhoons go through the loop just as low as a tornado and the F35 more recently but can they go as fast low level as the Tornado, i know tornado has the terrain following radar and can travel mach one low level, can the new boys do the same? and is it still needed do you think in this day and age with long range cruise missiles which do the same?

There's been no RAF F35s in the loop & with the ban theres not going to be an RAF fast jets through anytime soon sadly.

Well they have flown through, I know the Americans flew some through but that wasn’t really my question

F-35B can go to 1,976 km/h which is 1,227 m/ph, equating to Mach 1.6
So faster than the Tornado, which makes sense (You'd expect the newest jet to be much faster than the older GR4).

...but can it do it whilst TFR'ing? I'd hazard a guess that it can't, but equally that it has no need to!

James Cutting wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:24 pm

F-35B can go to 1,976 km/h which is 1,227 m/ph, equating to Mach 2 (1.6 times speed of sound)

So faster than the Tornado, which makes sense (You'd expect the newest jet to be much faster than the older GR4).

But at what height? Low level supersonics are very fuel hungry and limited to dashes, unless the F-35 has supercruise at low level. Even with TFR going that fast you couldn't get too low as manouvering round or over obstacles would get beyond what the pilot could withstand for protracted periods even if the airframe could. And surely Mach2 is twice the speed of sound?

Yeah made a c***-up! and I'm just pulling off from what I found online so I could be wrong, so apologies

Theres just no need for low level anymore, with long range stand off bombs, cruise missiles and those pilotless things, low level is clearly a thing of the past, for now. It seems to be all mid level and high level now.

The only reason to deliver munitions at low level would be if you’re using cluster or area denial weapons, both of which have been banned under international law(which we abide to unlike some countries). So it doesn’t really matter if Typhoon or F35 can’t do the job as good as the Tornado could, on the other hand both the Typhoon and F35 are better at conducting more or less everything the Tornado ever did.

Tornado and F-111 were the only strike capable fighter size airframes with TFR in the west, can't remember if the Su-24 had anything broadly similar. And after 2025 both will be history. In short once the F-35s start working together with Typhoons, after 617 Sqn gets full OC TFR isn't a requirement.

Sadly no requirement for OLF anymore either

Yes American F35s have flown through , thought you were talking about RAF

I've just read a book about USAF F-4G Wild Weasels in the first Gulf War. Interesting that while the F-111s were mentioned the author went into a bit more detail about working with RAF Tornados attacking the Iraqi airfields because they flew so low. The F4G's had to fly at an altitude to tempt the Iraqi AAA radars to light up, once they had neutralised the radars either by firing missles at them or scaring them into shutting down just by being there the following strike aircraft were a lot safer and could fly in at medium or high altitude. This was vital for the B-52 raids on the Republican Guard tank regiments who bombed from fairly high well within the envelope of SA-2 & 3.

The SEAD (Suppression of Enemy And Defence)) role was very important & still is I'm sure , with the EA18 & F16 (the latter is still used in the role?)

Low Level will still have a place not with bombing but certainly in any conflict role even if it's small. Typhoon pilots still require a certain amount of Low Level currency before deploying to Cyprus it was brought up in a recent airprox because at the end of the day if the ''sh*t hits the fan'' getting down low and getting the hell out is the way to do it.

okay so basically we are not losing any ability at all by the tornado going into retirement. I remember too the tornado held those two big canisters under it belly to fly along runways and drop bomblets to completely destroy a runway, is that totally redundant now then? i guess with cruise missiles ect ect it is totally redundant. surely eventually the bombing of ground targets could be done by the new hyper sonic missiles coming out, i mean i know the Americans have converted trident subs into cruise missile subs, soon we will have missiles that take off, go into space and can strike anywhere on the planet and are unstoppable, why risk a pilot and an expensive plane?

hernaman86 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:34 pm

I remember too the tornado held those two big canisters under it belly to fly along runways and drop bomblets to completely destroy a runway, is that totally redundant now then?

The runway denial unit was the JP233 dispenser and it contained bomblets to destroy airfield hardstanding along with mines to deny repair. These were retired from service several years ago as the practice was considered too risky, and the treaty against mines made them illegal to operate.

will the f-35 ever be used for QRA in the near future or is the typhoon more than enough to scare off any intimidating aircraft??

wdh wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:51 am

will the f-35 ever be used for QRA in the near future or is the typhoon more than enough to scare off any intimidating aircraft??

No.... never....

The F35 has not been procured for this role. Air defence will be a Typhoon role, with QRA operated from Coningsby and Lossiemouth.

As Agent K says,

Also if it carries ASRAAM or AMRAAM its for self Defence only just like Tornado GR.4s do, and Harriers and Jaguars and have done.