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Machloop ban

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Blackcat1
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Blackcat1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:49 pm

Yes Taff social media has a lot to answer for.
Gareth

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roughcutter
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by roughcutter » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:17 pm

Blackcat1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:36 pm
Have seen a few types going vertical through Cad, it's not the vertical climb that caused the trouble , it was the rolls that were carried out. A lot of noise complaints over the years & there was a lot more complaints leading up to the incident.

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Arthur Tee
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Arthur Tee » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:24 am

ChrisCwmbran wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:50 pm
I didn't suggest that they could or should police it.

I just suggested it was the ultimate conclusion from your comment about traffic lights.

I don't know if the land belongs to farmers, or the government so I can't really comment. I'm sure it could be made much harder to do though if they wanted to.
The MoD are already in the process of trying to 'make it harder' - they have written to land owners around the Loop and those with 'fields and clearings' used by the helis - asking them to positively discourage enthusiasts from their land.
I know this is fact - as I have seen the letter and know of one land-owner who operates a small strip in Shropshire - and he thinks it stinks!!

PS - Are you aware that the RAF Police (including those at Shawbury) regularly monitor these pages? The Flight Sergeant Snowdrop wanted to know who was passing-on airfield reduced hours times. Despite being of senior years - he was low on intelligence - and had know idea what a NOTAM was! :whistle:

Arthur

lowlevelRAF
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by lowlevelRAF » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:36 am

The pilot would of known he was in hot water while on RTB, the debrief and HUD tapes that get shown during post flight, would reveal what happened. Social media has highlighted the loop to the extreme, look at the Dailyfail and how many articles a year they print with 'Really low fighter jets in Wales!' on it. We'll see when/if the RAF return to the loop, but in the meantime plenty of other area for them to conduct training.
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toom317
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by toom317 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:12 am

lowlevelRAF wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:36 am
... but in the meantime plenty of other area for them to conduct training.
Well the Selkirk to Moffat valley didn't gain from it, if anything it got worse.
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Blackcat1
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Blackcat1 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:16 pm

Luckily for me the Brecon Beacons is still used but sadly like everywhere , so quiet these days
Gareth

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Supra
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Supra » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Rainbow Canyon it is then! More variety, better weather & Harrieresque things. No fighting for parking-spaces, No climbing & No 'Protocol-police' :thumb:
Just sayin'.. :whistle:

richpittman
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by richpittman » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:13 pm

Supra wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:48 pm
Rainbow Canyon it is then! More variety, better weather & Harrieresque things. No fighting for parking-spaces, No climbing & No 'Protocol-police' :thumb:
Just sayin'.. :whistle:
Until that all goes wrong too ....

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Viper28
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Viper28 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:47 pm

The RAF are gradually removing low level training from the fast jet operations manual. They simply do not believe that it's necessary any more and it's very expensive to do. Once the Tornado goes the RAF presence in all the LFA's will drop significantly. You will still get the C130's, A400M's and rotary craft that have to operate down low but not the jets we use too. Situation might get a bit better once the USAF starts operating F35A's out if Lakenheath but I doubt we will see many RAF ones.
Unfortunately the only thing that will change that is when a century series SAM knocks a F35 out the sky and history repeats itself and they realise that half a mile of granite between you and a SAM is better than shaped carbon fibre and a pile of Chinese electronics

ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:47 pm

Mark wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:01 am

There were 2 parties in the wrong here. The Pilot for performing the climb out and the poster for publishing it despite public opinion regarding the potential ramifications...
One party in the wrong.

The pilot.

The only thing our poster friend could have done better was to send the video privately. But why should she, it's her video afterall and she wasn't the one potentially committing an illegal act.

ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:48 pm

Viper28 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:47 pm
The RAF are gradually removing low level training from the fast jet operations manual. They simply do not believe that it's necessary any more and it's very expensive to do.
And the last two times we did it operationally there were significant losses of both aircraft and aircrew.

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The Phantom
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by The Phantom » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:21 am

ColintheCaterpillar wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:47 pm

The only thing our poster friend could have done better was to send the video privately. But why should she, it's her video afterall and she wasn't the one potentially committing an illegal act.
Why should she indeed! But as an aviation enthusiast, and as someone who was warned by others of the backlash of trouble it would cause, she could have had more thought to things than just the selfish 'me me me' need of posting her video on twatter!

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C24
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by C24 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:37 am

FYI
There is a Freedom of Information request which has to be answered by the 29th Jan

Further research has revealed

http://digg.com/video/mach-loop-wales-jets

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wzh7Hou3 ... fullscreen

Both of these clips do not answer my question, " What is all the fuss about? " but are good examples of the problems(?), complaints about low flying.

Charge for parking/access and carry on with the training. ;)
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Blackcat1
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Blackcat1 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:44 am

Good idea C24, it's like my towns car park, loads of spaces to park all year when you are charged, free parking from beginning of December & then it's full and impossible to find space.
Gareth

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ColintheCaterpillar
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by ColintheCaterpillar » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:54 pm

The Phantom wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:21 am

Why should she indeed! But as an aviation enthusiast, and as someone who was warned by others of the backlash of trouble it would cause, she could have had more thought to things than just the selfish 'me me me' need of posting her video on twatter!
I get your point, particularly the last bit. :)

Drinkmat
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Drinkmat » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:53 pm

Perhaps some of the Barrack Room Lawyers on here could suggest a way of photographers to have their images and video vetted by someone before they have the nerve to post them on the internet. I would say that the pilot was at fault, but I wouldn't do that, as I don't have access to all of the information such as what happened when the pilot was de-briefed after landing, or if any action was taken against them. Obviously, some of the posters here do have the information, judging by some of the comments.

What I can say is that the photographer wasn't at fault. If the pilot flew outside of authorised limitations, that's one thing. The photographer broke no rules or regulations that I'm aware of. This site sometimes seems to emulate UKAR.

Supra
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by Supra » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:03 pm

Respectfully, may I suggest that sometimes one is witness to an aviation event /action that is clearly not properly executed in the best way for the avoidance of increased risk of a major occurrence. If the said event doesn't escalate or get acknowledged elsewhere, is it strictly necessary as an 'armchair pilot' to bring-it forward to the attention of the Media & Doom-bringers, who then perhaps in this case, heap pressure on the RAF to respond? Clearly there are standards to be adhered-to in all walks of life, but surely it's in no aircraft enthusiasts interest to effectively 'dob-in' aircrew for the pure '5 minutes of fame' & self-gratification of being "the one who got it"? If one took the view that this alleged detraction posed a real threat to life / property & therefore should be addressed, then we are no better than the H&S spoilers so despised on the Forums for removing opportunities 'just-in-case!' Surely there's no requirement for vetting what people Post (also impossible IMO), it's purely down to the individuals integrity & moral-stance as to whether the posting of such an 'alleged incident' on a public platform is in anyone's best interests?
My own view on this is that this whole episode could be akin to the scum that drive like it's Sunday everyday, frustrating the poo out of others, baiting a reaction so they can give their subsequent dashcam footage to the Police & get anther LED for their Halo! :halo: :grr:

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ChrisCwmbran
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Drinkmat wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:53 pm
UKAR
Who or what is UKAR?

mirage41
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by mirage41 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:19 pm

UK airshow review.

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ChrisCwmbran
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Re: Machloop ban

Post by ChrisCwmbran » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:27 pm

Ah ok. Thanks.

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