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Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

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RubyRoo
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Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by RubyRoo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:16 pm

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-unve ... d-tempest/
Tempest is expected to complement the F-35 and eventually replace Typhoon.

It is understood that £2 billion in initial funding will be set out to oversee the design and build of the aircraft, which will be operational in 2035. The project is a joint venture between BAE Systems, Rolls Royce, MBDA UK Ltd and Leonardo.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said as he also launched the UK’s new Combat Air Strategy:

“We have been a world leader in the combat air sector for a century, with an enviable array of skills and technology, and this Strategy makes clear that we are determined to make sure it stays that way. It shows our allies that we are open to working together to protect the skies in an increasingly threatening future – and this concept model is just a glimpse into what the future could look like.

British defence industry is a huge contributor to UK prosperity, creating thousands of jobs in a thriving advanced manufacturing sector, and generating a UK sovereign capability that is the best in the world.

Today’s news leaves industry, our military, the country, and our allies in no doubt that the UK will be flying high in the combat air sector as we move into the next generation.”

The aircraft will no doubt put many of you in mind of Replica, a design study for an envisioned military aircraft with stealth capabilities, developed by BAE Systems. It was ultimately not pursued after the 90’s as the British government chose to proceed with involvement in the Joint Strike Fighter program instead, which ultimately led to the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II. Experience and data acquired through the programme was later rolled into the Joint Strike Fighter.

As part of the study, a full size model of the aircraft was constructed and was subjected to a rigorous test regime to determine its radar cross section.
There is more to the article on the link provided as well as more concepts.

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paddyboy
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by paddyboy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm

A blinkin' sight better looking than 'Dave' :lol:
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kevb
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by kevb » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:43 pm

Very nice? But 2035? And we have just started buying 'Daves'? Deffo no expert here like those commenting in the ukdj? But are we not decades too late with this? Also how long has it took other countries to develop 5th gen aircraft?

See attached interesting article? ( from 4 years ago)

https://theaviationist.com/2014/02/25/m ... e-replica/

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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Reach1985 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:55 pm

Oh, great, another hugely costly 'toy' so that we can kid our selves that we are 'in the big league' of world players when currently the vast majority of our neighbours and allies think we are a joke.

I seriously wish that we'd just face up to the fact that we are a very small country on the edge of Europe and that if we are to be a world player then why can't we at least be a world player for something more positive than enormously expensive fighter jets?

Will the hangover of 'The Empire' ever come to an end?!

Dan423
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Dan423 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:56 am

So once it cripples BAE and drains the wrecked economy of more money, wouldn't it just be more cost effective to replace the Typhoon with the F-35a? Have we learned nothing from history in that our aerospace industry died a long time ago, we've not got the skills or manufacturing facilities, it'd end up being contracted out here and there to foreign companies and it'll likely go the same way as TSR.2? I wish it well, I really do, but the state of the country is in I just can't see it redeeming itself and producing such a machine.

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Freeman Lowell
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Freeman Lowell » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:00 am

I think it’s very positive (except for the number of assembly workrs not required). It’s setting out the shop window, so that other countries can come on board our programme / lead rather than us playing second fiddle to others.
Or is that too jingoistic in this PC world?
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Supra
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Supra » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:13 am

Perhaps this will be the money-pit chosen over the potential Anglo-Swede joke alliance mentioned recently? Saab have made great aircraft (& cars) in the past but the Gripen doesn't quite 'cut-it' for me. If that collaboration went forward at least Saab could blame the UK. for the aircraft resembling a flying mongrel akin to an Austin Allegro in automotive terms!
I see no case for developing a late-coming, thrice over-budget, under-performing Tempest jet, when proven technology off the shelf, to a budget & timescale is available? If this is an attempt to preserve any semblance of British aircraft manufacturing, they are too late!
If indeed, "Experience and data acquired through the programme was later rolled into the Joint Strike Fighter" then BAE Systems want their asses kicked again for sitting-back since the Millenium & not pursuing development!
If this attempt to keep the likes of Warton open is the best they can manage, it would be cheaper for the UK Government to pay the workforce NOT to make it!!

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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Gordyflyer » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:44 am

I just hope that they build something with a decent range/endurance that doesn't need to plug into a tanker (of which we have very limited numbers) almost as soon as it leaves the ground in order to do anything useful.
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eagle driver
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by eagle driver » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:12 pm

It kind of looks like a F-22 which probably sums up the UK aircraft industry in being 30 years to late
By the time this thing gets in the air the rest of the world would of moved on.

Agent K
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Agent K » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:26 pm

eagle driver wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:12 pm
It kind of looks like a F-22 which probably sums up the UK aircraft industry in being 30 years to late
By the time this thing gets in the air the rest of the world would of moved on.
Given the fact that the F22 is a 30 + year old aircraft, then I suspect this will surpass the F22 in propulsion, materials, aerodynamics, avionics and weapons.

Far from catching up this will push the boundaries forward even more.

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eagle driver
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by eagle driver » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:59 pm

I kind of doubt it some how.

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TankBuster
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by TankBuster » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Thinking about how long it takes to tweak out the gremlins in new aircraft projects then I think this design will probably be coming online way past 2035 and no doubt with increasing costs too!

Perhaps F-35As would be a more sensible and cost effective way to go.

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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by KyleG » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:43 pm

F-35As would be suitable if we were replacing the Typhoon in the next few years, but we're not. By the time the Typhoon retires the F-35 will have been in service for 25+ years. Even with the upgrades that are almost certain to be integrated, it'll still be a relatively old design and will be at around mid-life in its cycle. The Tempest proposal ensures that while the RAF has a mature, capable fighter like the F-35 (of any variant) in its inventory, it is also working up a new, more modern design at the same time, so there's no capability gap when the latter supersedes the former.

As for it supposedly looking like an F-22 - we're looking at a pre-development model, and we're looking at the exterior. Not only is the external design likely to evolve, the internals will be far, far more sophisticated than those in the F-22 (which are already lagging behind some other aircraft and are due an upgrade). That's before you even start talking about the weapons and sensors it'll no doubt carry.
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iainpeden
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by iainpeden » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:02 pm

Agent K wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:26 pm
eagle driver wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:12 pm
It kind of looks like a F-22 which probably sums up the UK aircraft industry in being 30 years to late
By the time this thing gets in the air the rest of the world would of moved on.
Given the fact that the F22 is a 30 + year old aircraft, then I suspect this will surpass the F22 in propulsion, materials, aerodynamics, avionics and weapons.

Far from catching up this will push the boundaries forward even more.
This is BAe we're talking about?

the concerned
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by the concerned » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:52 pm

My problem is that the RAF hasn't issued what set of capabilities it requires in a future aircraft. So now you have the company telling the customer what it wants and that would never work. This sounds like nothing more than a p r stunt

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Tally-ho
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Tally-ho » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:43 am

Excellent news!

Chief executive of BAE Systems, Charles Woodburn said "The important thing about the new concept is that it will illustrate a direction of travel and many of those technologies that will be embodied in that will first see their service through the Typhoon. For example, upgrades on the avionics, upgrades in the weapons systems, upgrades in the radar will be deployed through the Typhoon and will be deployed there and then".

At least there is renewed effort and commitment to re-establish and re-energise the military aviation industry in the UK. What is wrong with that? It will incentivise the retention of highly skilled engineers and technicians for use in our own specialised aviation industry. Again, what is wrong with that?

Agent K
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Agent K » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:02 am

iainpeden wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:02 pm
Agent K wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:26 pm
eagle driver wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:12 pm
It kind of looks like a F-22 which probably sums up the UK aircraft industry in being 30 years to late
By the time this thing gets in the air the rest of the world would of moved on.
Given the fact that the F22 is a 30 + year old aircraft, then I suspect this will surpass the F22 in propulsion, materials, aerodynamics, avionics and weapons.

Far from catching up this will push the boundaries forward even more.
This is BAe we're talking about?
Are you speaking from experience? or the armchair?

Fighterfoto
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by Fighterfoto » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:34 am

the concerned wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:52 pm
My problem is that the RAF hasn't issued what set of capabilities it requires in a future aircraft. So now you have the company telling the customer what it wants and that would never work. This sounds like nothing more than a p r stunt
You know that for a fact? No, didn’t think so.

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thorny1a
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by thorny1a » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:10 pm

Great to see we still have an industry prepared to at least try & lead the way in fighter development.
No one would laugh at the French, Swedes, Japanese, Indians or South Koreans if their industry came up with proposals & visions of what might be needed in future... yet a lot of people want to dismiss this outright.

Lets hope we manage to get some industrial backing from other quarters & see where this can lead. At least we are trying & if BAE's military air division wants to survive into the future this is precisely the sort of thing they need to be doing.
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iainpeden
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Re: Tempest - Britain's new stealth fighter

Post by iainpeden » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:15 pm

Agent K wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:02 am
iainpeden wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:02 pm
Agent K wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:26 pm


Given the fact that the F22 is a 30 + year old aircraft, then I suspect this will surpass the F22 in propulsion, materials, aerodynamics, avionics and weapons.

Far from catching up this will push the boundaries forward even more.
This is BAe we're talking about?
Are you speaking from experience? or the armchair?
Actually from my swivel chair at my desk and using 50 years of aviation enthusiasm and being aware of the issues around Nimrod AEW and MR4 as well as the initial problems of the Tornado F2 - the fighter with no radar. Essentially most contracts where the govt have agreed to pay all costs rather than a fixed price deal end up running significantly over time and over cost.

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