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Aviation Rip Off's

A forum for discussing all things related to MILITARY AVIATION including Military Aviation news. No off-topic discussions here please.
SpilsbyPete
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Aviation Rip Off's

Post by SpilsbyPete » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Guys,

Your thoughts on what is happening in aviation today. in the UK
The Prices that the market is dictating

This is not about the Price of a Airshow Ticket.
This is not about the extra for parking at Duxford or the high cost of Food/Drinks

It's the Price of Photo Shoots and Night Shoots.
We have just had Marham at £50 (More expensive that the Scampton Show)
What the majority got and the Photo group got was "miles apart"
This was not the first £50 event.
We have had a load of Museum night shoots at £50.
There some Photographic groups/Clubs charging high fees that make this the norm and
therefore Joe Public suffer.
But there are some Good guys out there,who charge £30 or £40 for something substantal.

I will not mention names,but the all known the groups.

Anyway Comments Please.
PS.Watch out for £100 event coming soon.

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toom317
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by toom317 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:38 pm

If you're willing to part with your money for events like these, then that's your choice. Nobody's twisting your arm. Maybe you should check and see what it is you are actually getting for your money, before parting with the cash.
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plmc135
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by plmc135 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:02 pm

Well said, it is no good moaning after the event. Check what you are going to get for your money before you purchase, "Caveat emptor".

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effects
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by effects » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Guys just stop going to all of these type of events.....simple.

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Thunder
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Thunder » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:27 pm

It not just the aviation world, as soon as you involve the word ‘enthusiast ‘ the price doubles as organisers know people will pay. If the RAF offered one place to photograph a single Tornado on the ground for a morning, just you no one else for £1000 there would be a line of idiots queuing up for it.

Bushpilot
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Bushpilot » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:35 pm

The modern 3Rs, Regulate, Reduce, Rip off, but nobody died so that's fine.
I want 2% of GDP and I want it NOW!

kstater94
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by kstater94 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:39 pm

The hobby has turned into a "pay to play" in many cases

Not saying that you can't achieve decent results by not paying the large sums

But money certainly gains you advantages... and organizers and operators know this

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PeteHemsley
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by PeteHemsley » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:41 pm

When these tours started, you were paying for something unique. As time goes on we are inundated with folk who have bought fancy cameras and think that photography pays the bills. As these arranged visits are released to pretty much anyone who wants to pay the sum of cash, the less unique they become.

I do understand that some of these excursions take time and effort for the organisers and for the staff on station who support the visit. I'm not sure how you all feel about working for free, but Im sure as hell think you all wouldn't do it free of charge. Afterall, these guys are providing a service. If you don't want to go, you don't pay for the service. If you want to shoot aircraft in a different manner than you have before, then pay and go.

People compare these base visits and such like with the likes of RIAT. "£50 to shoot 5 aircraft is a rip off. Riat costs that for a whole day"..... Well yes, riat does cost the same amount, BUT....you also have tens of not hundreds of thousands of people attending and a shed load of staff, air arms etc to pay.

At the end of the day, it's up to you. If you don't want to go, don't. But don't complain when others do. It's purely choice.

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XWP29
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by XWP29 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:26 pm

PeteHemsley wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:41 pm
When these tours started, you were paying for something unique. As time goes on we are inundated with folk who have bought fancy cameras and think that photography pays the bills. As these arranged visits are released to pretty much anyone who wants to pay the sum of cash, the less unique they become.

I do understand that some of these excursions take time and effort for the organisers and for the staff on station who support the visit. I'm not sure how you all feel about working for free, but Im sure as hell think you all wouldn't do it free of charge. Afterall, these guys are providing a service. If you don't want to go, you don't pay for the service. If you want to shoot aircraft in a different manner than you have before, then pay and go.

People compare these base visits and such like with the likes of RIAT. "£50 to shoot 5 aircraft is a rip off. Riat costs that for a whole day"..... Well yes, riat does cost the same amount, BUT....you also have tens of not hundreds of thousands of people attending and a shed load of staff, air arms etc to pay.

At the end of the day, it's up to you. If you don't want to go, don't. But don't complain when others do. It's purely choice.
Where you there yesterday?
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XWP29
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by XWP29 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:01 pm

PeteHemsley wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:41 pm
When these tours started, you were paying for something unique. As time goes on we are inundated with folk who have bought fancy cameras and think that photography pays the bills. As these arranged visits are released to pretty much anyone who wants to pay the sum of cash, the less unique they become.

I do understand that some of these excursions take time and effort for the organisers and for the staff on station who support the visit. I'm not sure how you all feel about working for free, but Im sure as hell think you all wouldn't do it free of charge. Afterall, these guys are providing a service. If you don't want to go, you don't pay for the service. If you want to shoot aircraft in a different manner than you have before, then pay and go.

People compare these base visits and such like with the likes of RIAT. "£50 to shoot 5 aircraft is a rip off. Riat costs that for a whole day"..... Well yes, riat does cost the same amount, BUT....you also have tens of not hundreds of thousands of people attending and a shed load of staff, air arms etc to pay.

At the end of the day, it's up to you. If you don't want to go, don't. But don't complain when others do. It's purely choice.
I disgree. It’s not the fancy cameras or the people that use them, nor the interest in the hobby, many there yesterday have stood outside bases for years and years and attended all sorts of events, this one hit the very bottom. The event yesterday reminded me of the Christmas Grotto events that are shut down by trading standards each December. Simply it should have been delayed or cancelled, particularly as the star turn couldn’t fly as suggested in the pre event e mails. Even adapting and making other opportunities available would have been appreciated.
The RAF should give as many opportunities to the public as possible to see what they do, it can be good publicity and they really need it. The USAF down the road are much better at it and don’t charge for base tours.
You pay your money and you make your choice, that’s very true, but the other party have a duty to deliver, which is not lining up three aircraft in service in a scene reminiscent of a major motorway construction project. Of the three, the one that flew and put on a good show turned out to be a vintage Spitfire. I really like Spitfires, but that’s not what we went to see yesterday.
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Vulcanone
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Vulcanone » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:15 pm

Well there is a Strategic Defence Review coming next month. Any offers on whats gonna get chopped..??

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Ghastly Whisper
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Ghastly Whisper » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:29 am

The RAF should give as many opportunities to the public as possible to see what they do, it can be good publicity and they really need it.
No they do not. They have a job to do, that job is not catering to namby pamby wombles that feel hard done by because they are easily parted from some cash. Let them get on with the job. There is no wonder the RAF community as a whole hates the aviation photographer. The hobby is quickly going down the toilet, its not because of a minority anymore its the majority, its embarrassing to admit I'm part of the minority because of the shamefull behaviour of the majority!
Never give up control. Live life on your own terms.

rh226
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by rh226 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:31 pm

Food for thought......

When does a hobby stop being a hobby and become an obsession?
Cheers, Bob

farnboroughrob
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by farnboroughrob » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:51 pm

I think what we are seeing in the events are events cashing in on those who are obsessive about photos and are willing to pay. I'm not a serious photographer, i'm a numbers man. I have been on many base trips from all three services and have never been disappointed.These have always been at a reasonable price for charities, I would never pay £50 though. Those tours have been hosted by people who know what we want to see, particularly the sadly missed Shawbury tours. It is when it becomes a photographers day that the price rockets, because they can charge it. It is like if you can sell a product that can be used for weddings the wedding price is %0% the normal price because people will pay it. Apart from not attending there is little you can do to bring prices down.

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Nighthawke
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Nighthawke » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:05 pm

rh226 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:31 pm
Food for thought......

When does a hobby stop being a hobby and become an obsession?
Good point Bob - for a start I would say when you become irrational - such as spending money in advance and not knowing or caring what you are paying for.

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Thunder
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Thunder » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:16 pm

Ghastly Whisper wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:29 am
The RAF should give as many opportunities to the public as possible to see what they do, it can be good publicity and they really need it.
No they do not. They have a job to do,

......and on Thursday at Marham that job was to make those that forked out £50 to be made welcome and at least try and cater for their needs, not to throw two fingers up at them by going out of their way to make what looked like a bad a very bad day. Why on Earth are the 3 aircraft parked so close together for starters, why not pull out another Tornado and tool it up along with another F-35 also tooled up(do the UK F-35's have external pylons?), on the otherhand the construction site in the background is unfortunate and in fairness not much you could do about that, after all everyone in this hobby knows that Marham is going through a major restructuring program at the moment.

Lack of imagination, lack of understanding and lack of pride all come to mind.

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Thunder
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Thunder » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:20 pm

Nighthawke wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:05 pm
rh226 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:31 pm
Food for thought......

When does a hobby stop being a hobby and become an obsession?
Good point Bob - for a start I would say when you become irrational - such as spending money in advance and not knowing or caring what you are paying for.
But for some the only chance that'll they'll ever get to get onto an active base is to part with £50 or £100. How would people feel if they parted with £50 to go and watch Chelsea play only to find out that it was the reserve team that took to the field.

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Tally-ho
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by Tally-ho » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:38 pm

The mind boggles! I have seen the pictures, pictures of three aircraft parked like doughnuts in a beach café counter, and people paid £50 for that. You pays your money and you takes your chances, but that was a rip-off, pure and simple!

Three bog standard over-photographed planes … :roll: :lol:

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plmc135
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by plmc135 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:59 pm

Thunder wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:20 pm
Nighthawke wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:05 pm
rh226 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:31 pm
Food for thought......

When does a hobby stop being a hobby and become an obsession?
Good point Bob - for a start I would say when you become irrational - such as spending money in advance and not knowing or caring what you are paying for.
But for some the only chance that'll they'll ever get to get onto an active base is to part with £50 or £100. How would people feel if they parted with £50 to go and watch Chelsea play only to find out that it was the reserve team that took to the field.
Relieved as some of the so called reserve team, more likely the substitutes, are possibly better than those actually on the pitch.

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XWP29
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Re: Aviation Rip Off's

Post by XWP29 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:03 pm

Ghastly Whisper wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:29 am
The RAF should give as many opportunities to the public as possible to see what they do, it can be good publicity and they really need it.
No they do not. They have a job to do, that job is not catering to namby pamby wombles that feel hard done by because they are easily parted from some cash. Let them get on with the job. There is no wonder the RAF community as a whole hates the aviation photographer. The hobby is quickly going down the toilet, its not because of a minority anymore its the majority, its embarrassing to admit I'm part of the minority because of the shamefull behaviour of the majority!
A reasonable debate rather than stuping to insults please, it’s unnecessary, even if you’re in the minority.
They need publicity to support funding, to not be reduced further in capability. My MP thinks there is “no threat” and we don’t need to worry, “it’s all cyber warfare now”. I actually discussed the matter with him.
I haven’t mentioned money and for me it’s not the concern, so please reconsider that thought, it’s the disappointment at the way the base presented itself.
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