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RAF wants to replace E3D

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Ghost from above
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RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Ghost from above » Sat May 19, 2018 8:07 pm

Jane's reporting that Senior UK Royal Air Force (RAF) officers and procurement officials have begun discussions with industry teams to look at options to replace the service’s ageing and unreliable fleet of Boeing E-3D Sentry Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) aircraft.

According to senior UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources close to the project, the MoD’s Modernising Defence Programme (MDP) review is now considering the E-3D replacement issue

I suspect that the procurement of the sentinels and the reliability of the airframe gave the bosses food for thought.
Mac

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Amp
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Amp » Sat May 19, 2018 8:43 pm

So what do we predict, A330 with a dish as part of a European effort, or a 76/77 based kit?

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Vulcanone » Sat May 19, 2018 8:47 pm

Not really a case of predicting, but at a rough guess 737 AEWC is a front runner.

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Ghost from above
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Ghost from above » Sat May 19, 2018 10:24 pm

Certainly the issues with the wedgetail seem to have been ironed out and would give a common airframe with the P8A.
So savings on maintenance,parts and the ability to rotate engines across the fleet to keep hours down sounds like a win win.
This along with Boeing's investment in a centre in the UK at sheffield indicates there teinforced intention to expand into the UK MOD market.
Mac

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the concerned
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by the concerned » Sun May 20, 2018 7:05 pm

I really do like the saab globaleye

Davem245
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Davem245 » Sun May 20, 2018 7:53 pm

Is not the P8 based on a BBJ rather than a 737 ?

DAVEM

Seahornet1
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Seahornet1 » Sun May 20, 2018 8:37 pm

Davem245 wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 7:53 pm
Is not the P8 based on a BBJ rather than a 737 ?

DAVEM
Er, no. It's based on the 737-800ERX; not hugely different from the 737NG that the 737AEW+C is based on.

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PeteHemsley
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by PeteHemsley » Mon May 21, 2018 6:02 am

The engineering and maintenance programme for the E3 has already slowed and both civil and military based staff at Waddington have already started moving out.

Agent K
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Agent K » Mon May 21, 2018 8:18 am

PeteHemsley wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:02 am
The engineering and maintenance programme for the E3 has already slowed and both civil and military based staff at Waddington have already started moving out.
Is that not a little premature given we're still some way away from any contract signature let alone build/acceptance and delivery. At least 4 years away I'd suggest to delivery of the first airframe so potentially at least another couple of years on top of that required for the E3 airframe with replacement deliveries taking those few years?

NickB
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by NickB » Mon May 21, 2018 8:19 am

I believe there are still a couple of AEW Shackletons in open storage in Cyprus - an heir and a spare?!!! :whistle:

Doughnut
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Doughnut » Mon May 21, 2018 9:27 am

PeteHemsley wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:02 am
The engineering and maintenance programme for the E3 has already slowed and both civil and military based staff at Waddington have already started moving out.
Easy to see why this is happened. The original fleet of seven aircraft has been reduced with at least one withdrawn and maybe two more under long term maintenance /stored. Therefore the operational fleet will require less man power, and if its on Contract it can be reduced.

Agent K
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Agent K » Mon May 21, 2018 11:14 am

Doughnut wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:27 am
PeteHemsley wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:02 am
The engineering and maintenance programme for the E3 has already slowed and both civil and military based staff at Waddington have already started moving out.
Easy to see why this is happened. The original fleet of seven aircraft has been reduced with at least one withdrawn and maybe two more under long term maintenance /stored. Therefore the operational fleet will require less man power, and if its on Contract it can be reduced.
Understand that and am aware of the reduction in airframes. I (mis)read the statement as personnel reductions in direct response to replacement.

Doughnut
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Doughnut » Mon May 21, 2018 1:02 pm

Guess that will also be the case. I can not imagine the RAF purchasing more that 4 or 5 airframes as replacement for the E-3D

H.A.Bucken
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by H.A.Bucken » Mon May 21, 2018 3:16 pm

I don't understand the M.O.D. Everything they order seem to have a designed life of barely 30 years; let's see how long the U.S.A.F. flies theirs for.
'Scenic in the Mist' aka Roger

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Dan D'Air
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Dan D'Air » Mon May 21, 2018 3:22 pm

Would this have anything to do with top protection of the aircraft carriers or is that a completely different issue?
Dan
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Vulcanone
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Vulcanone » Mon May 21, 2018 3:32 pm

I think the issue is that the beany counters, got in the way of upgrades.

And thus we failed to keep up with the other E-3 users, and so now the French and NATO/USAF have all been or started being upgraded and ours have sat around idly slowly getting older and less reliable.

I think the carriers will be served by Crowsnest fitted on the Merlins (unless they get round to buying some V-22s)

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Ghost from above
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Ghost from above » Mon May 21, 2018 7:28 pm

Estimates to extend the RAF E3 fleet to 2035 with the outstanding upgrades put at £2 billion.
Australia got 4 wedgetail aircraft for circa £560 million in 2000 with delivery in 2009. Assume we could get at least 6 new aircraft for £1 to £1.25 billion that's a saving worth looking at
Mac

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Agent K
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Agent K » Mon May 21, 2018 8:42 pm

H.A.Bucken wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:16 pm
I don't understand the M.O.D. Everything they order seem to have a designed life of barely 30 years; let's see how long the U.S.A.F. flies theirs for.
'Scenic in the Mist' aka Roger
Barely 30 years, lol, assume you’re joking there. Let’s face it 30 years is a decent airframe life/pressurisation cycles life, it’s not dissimilar in the airline business.

Do you still drive your car from 30 years ago and daily?

Vulcanone
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by Vulcanone » Mon May 21, 2018 9:04 pm

And some airlines divest themselves of modern fleets in a lot less than that 30 years....

As for the USAF flying them for longer, well they do have more of them and more money to keep them going, oh and have updated them to address age issues etc...

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PR9
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Re: RAF wants to replace E3D

Post by PR9 » Wed May 23, 2018 1:40 pm

Vulcanone wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:04 pm
And some airlines divest themselves of modern fleets in a lot less than that 30 years....

As for the USAF flying them for longer, well they do have more of them and more money to keep them going, oh and have updated them to address age issues etc...
Shed loads of spares too. I'd like to see Wedgetails or Globaleyes at Waddo.
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