New Red Arrows order. Sign here please

[martmpf]

I believe the Reds operate as a "shadow" reserve squadron anyway.Their aircraft could be fitted with weapons, as the hardware, in the main, exists on the aircraft. This conversion could be completed in fairly short order time wise. That is why the pilots reguarly go to Valley to for combat currency.

[Vulcanone]

The option for the Reds to do point defence was binned over 25 years ago as was carriage of AIM 9s. They now only go to Valley to use the simulator from memory.

Infact I don't think RAF Hawks have carried any AAMs since 7FTS (19 and 92, Sqns were disbanded at Chivenor in 1993/94)

[page_verify]

I'm pleasantly surprised at the critical conversation of the Reds on here! Their day is surely over in the next few years unless the majority of their costs are openly funded by industry. I know BAe and JLR among others already pump a lot of cash into them but if taking a dozen combat trained pilots off the front line wasn't bad enough then the cost of keeping a dozen aging Hawks in the sky is just as eye watering for the public pocket. I'm sure the pilots put good time and effort into maintaining some form of "point defence" capability, but please - when have we ever needed that in the last 30 years? Right now, we're struggling to get pilots to the front line who have the training and experience to drop or fire a laser guided munition on a terrorist pickup truck, not defend an airfield in the north of England from Backfires.......

Sorry folks, but at some point senior RAF officer, political or public opinion, never mind finances, will send the Red Arrows the same way as the USAF's Tops in Blue!

[SCARECROW]

There are not '24 in reserve' at RAF Shawbury, yes a few are earmarked for their future use but not 24 !

Also do we need the Reds ? we do not need to flog T1 Hawks and as a recruiting tool well down to 35,000 from 98,000 when I joined up 32 years ago I guess not !

[Vulcanone]

Thats just going on what demobbed has listed SCARECROW.

It has about 24 as wfu and another 24 down as in store. However I bow to your better knowledge of whats in there.

[SCARECROW]

Hawks are in store for future use for 100 and FRADU or whatever Sqn it is now, but only 3 or 4 for Reds, as the smoke gear is very expensive they only use what they can take out of older Reds airframes

[Arthur Tee]

Personally - I'll be surprised if the Reds continue (in their current form) beyond the end of the RAF's Centenary 2018 season.
As Scarecrow alluded to - we dont build them anymore, we dont sell them anymore and there is no need to recrcuit in this manner (or at this expense)...

Arthur

[jem60]

Everything has it's day, and. like ARAB, I haven't seen them much these days, and, if one goes round the major shows, there are more exciting teams to watch [but not necessarily better pilots]. Time to move on, although, whilst WE may perhaps get a little bored with seeing them, I suspect that the general public still adore them, and why not!.

[page_verify]

The public dried their eyes after Concorde was grounded and got on with life again, and like that grounding I suspect Richard Branson will grab the headlines by offering to keep the Red Arrows flying even though he knows he hasn't got a chance.

All it'll take for them to be "shut down" is a safety incident that a VSO isn't happy to sign off. That was essentially why the two Nimrod variants were retired before their replacements were available - although to be fair general opinion seemed to be that they were flying deathtraps. The Red Arrows had their first scare a few years when they accepted Red 1 shouldn't be the officer commanding. I wonder whether with the Fl Lt Cunningham events that have happened and with what might happen whether someone will say it's time to stop inviting risk.

[C24]

What a load of old Tosh! Even Rubbish!
If the Country can spend money on a few F-35s & carriers, the blokes who run the Airforce will support RAFAT. It gives all manner of benefits

Yes, I am biased.

[Dan213]

Find some of the posts on here regarding the reds and their purpose very interesting. For some people, it seems like the only purpose of an aircraft is to log it or take a photo of it. The Red Arrows exist far beyond that of a recruitment tool for the present time and their presence overseas clearly shows that their purpose in promoting the UK goes far beyond what many people think.

[Sparts99]

I think it would be a huge dent in the UK's prestige if the Arrows were disbanded and nothing suitable replaced them, I don't have any answers though, maybe a four or six ship T2 team when the T1's run out of life, anything with props just wouldn't cut it. Look at Diables Rouge on SF 260's compared to Magisters. It really wouldn't help UK industry abroad if we didn't have a big show presence compared to France, Italy, Switzerland, Turkey, especially with Brexit looming.