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Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future order
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:14 am
by Gary
Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant order after first 48 F-35Bs
By George Allison - July 12, 2017
Earl Howe, Minister of State for Defence and Deputy Leader of the House of Lords, has suggested that a change in F-35 variant may be on the cards after the first 48 F-35Bs.
Thye information comes to light in answer to a written question in the House of Lords asked by the Marquess of Lothian:
“To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they remain committed to the purchase of 138 F-35B jump–jets for the Royal Navy.”
Answered by Earl Howe
“As part of the Strategic Defence and Security Review in 2015, we reaffirmed our commitment to procure 138 F-35 Lightning II aircraft.
The first tranche of 48 aircraft will be of the F-35B variant, which will be jointly operated by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, and capable of operating from both land and the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers. The decision on the variant of subsequent tranches of Lightning will be taken at the appropriate time.”
The structure of the Lightning force is now somewhat clear.
17(R) Squadron is currently based at Edwards Air Force Base in the US and fills role of F-35B Operational Evaluation Unit.
617 Squadron will be based at RAF Marham and will be the first operational British F-35 unit in 2019.
809 Naval Air Squadron will also be based at RAF Marham.
2 more unnamed frontline Squadrons are to be established.
207 Squadron as the Operation Conversion Unit
This information comes from Air Cmdr. Harvey Smyth, the commander of the U.K.’s Lightning Force, as told to reporters at a conference in London last year.
In 2015, the UK government’s Strategic Defence and Security Review confirmed a planned order of 138 F-35s, with 23 of them to be available for carrier duties by 2023. The UK will have an operational fleet of around 63 aircraft according to Smyth, which is less than half of the total number of F-35’s that the UK has agreed to purchase
However, as reported by AviationWeek, Smyth pointed out that “the total number would cover attrition replacements and the so-called sustainment fleet, which is defined as additional aircraft required to sustain the fleet to its out-of-service date as well as to cover maintenance. Other UK combat aircraft also have large sustainment fleets.”
The F-35B’s maiden deployment is set for late 2017 and it’s bound for the Western Pacific. The jet will deploy aboard an amphibious flattop and the US Navy are planning a more powerful escort force to support it, according to Admiral Scott Swift, head of Pacific Fleet, as reported by Marine Times.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:01 pm
by 22A
Reported this evening on Russia Today that due to increasing costs and technical defects, some countries (they didn't say which), are now either curtailing or cancelling their orders. Haven't seen that "news" story anywhere else.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:01 pm
by 1marshn30
Second Hand Harriers anyone, Oh sorry sold them to USMC to sit in the Desert
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:25 pm
by Vulcanone
Yes the spares recovered fuselages sit in AMARG. And by the way the original plan was to retire Harrier by 2018 anyway.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:29 pm
by Fighterfoto
Why keep Harrier which will be shot down as soon as it enters a missile engagement zone? Great jet but it's had its day.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:54 am
by Sparts99
22A wrote:Reported this evening on Russia Today that due to increasing costs and technical defects, some countries (they didn't say which), are now either curtailing or cancelling their orders. Haven't seen that "news" story anywhere else.
RT is the Putin government's mouthpiece that spouts all kinds of nonsense and half truths.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:49 pm
by kristianrj
Makes sense. Seems unnecessary to have such a huge fleet of the shorter ranged, heavier and more complex B model if the vast majority of them will be operating from runways.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:17 pm
by the concerned
I am hoping we replace the typhoon with the f-35 rather than embarking on any crazy European projects.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:57 pm
by PA200
Fighterfoto wrote: [quote] Why keep Harrier which will be shot down as soon as it enters a missile engagementzone? Great jet but it's had its day.[quote]
Best we retire GR.4 and Typhoon as well then as they fly over MEZs as well.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:58 pm
by page_verify
To be fair to them, the GR4 is being replaced by the F-35 and one of the F-35's roles it to make areas safe on day zero for the Typhoons on day one.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:24 am
by wolfie138
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:50 pm
by Vulcanone
Sky seems to have cottoned on to the In depth story that The Times is running, but never fear I suspect it will be fixed and work perfectly
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:02 pm
by Doughnut
It is not really important which variant of the F-35 the RN/RAF purchases just please get on with buying them !! All this delay and uncertainty is doing harm to the armed forces and the ability to perform the task which is required. Personally I would favour a F-35C model to give land based squadrons great payload and longer, air fuellable, range. But maybe a cooperation deal with NATO on F-35A would be a better idea.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:15 pm
by Vulcanone
They are buying them, except its not one big splurg on spending all yer cash at once. Oh and its also down to the negotiations between Lockheed Martin and the US Government.
Low Rate initial Prouduction batches Lot I Lot II and all that etc etc.. In short just about the same way the US Fiscal years system works.. IIRC.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:07 pm
by tm74sqn
My thoughts are that purchasing the aircraft fleet over an extended period is a good idea.
1. Because late production a/c are likely to be more capable and need much fewer modifications than early production ones.
2. They don't wear out in the same time frame!
On the other hand, buying them all in an early and much shorter time-frame . . . .
TM74
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:43 pm
by Vulcanone
Its probably going to be a bit more staggered than the Tornado fleet deliveries were, more like Typhoons. Perhaps.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:25 am
by johnwayne
kristianrj wrote:Makes sense. Seems unnecessary to have such a huge fleet of the shorter ranged, heavier and more complex B model if the vast majority of them will be operating from runways.
Have to agree - for the significant proportion of the projected fleet that it seems will be exclusively land based surely the A & C models vastly superior payload/range compared to the B becomes a telling factor (and presumably the unit cost would be lower too). Seems like an eminently sensible 'win win' option which is why the 'men in grey suits' probably won't go for it !
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:32 am
by Scudpilot
1marshn30 wrote:Second Hand Harriers anyone, Oh sorry sold them to USMC to sit in the Desert
Didn't take long
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:38 am
by Richard B
The numbers of 136 aircraft will be like the 238 Typhoons, they are purchased over a time frame.
We will never have those numbers in service at one time.
Look how many Typhoons we have purchased and how many are on active front line service today.
Re: Government suggest change to UK F-35 variant future ord
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:43 am
by bizfreeq
Scudpilot wrote:1marshn30 wrote:Second Hand Harriers anyone, Oh sorry sold them to USMC to sit in the Desert
Didn't take long
It never does
You'd think after 6+ years people would have learned to live with it, they've gone and cannot come back!