RNAS Culdrose Sea Fury crash 2014.

[XV370]

With regard to the Sea Fury crash at the 2014 airshow was an accident investigation completed and does anyone know the outcome?

[Zymurgy661]

A quick google gives this - https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-in ... -20-g-rnhf

[XV370]

Thanks.

[Supra]

Nothing in that Report changes my initial view that given the open countryside around RNAS Culdrose & its proximity to the sea, that it was the wrong choice to attempt to land-back at the airfield. In the event 'Goaty' nearly pulled-it off, but by the necessary delay in lowering the u/c for the second-time, there was insufficient time for the stbd gear-extension to lock before being loaded!
Yet again, luck played a major part in the outcome. Having seen the damage to the engine, the real miracle is that it kept turning at all! In hindsight it must be evident to everybody that bringing a severely stricken aircraft back to base to potentially crash (horridly) in front of 23,000 public spectators should've been the least likely option for a professional pilot? Remind me of the mantra.....It's only metal!!

[Seafire 47]

I believe this topic has already been done to death and only the pilot himself will truly know if he made the right decision.All I know is that a disaster to the crowd was averted,the aircraft was saved and the pilot walked away,what more could you ask for?

[ArabJazzie]

Nothing in that Report changes my initial view that given the open countryside around RNAS Culdrose & its proximity to the sea, that it was the wrong choice to attempt to land-back at the airfield. In the event 'Goaty' nearly pulled-it off, but by the necessary delay in lowering the u/c for the second-time, there was insufficient time for the stbd gear-extension to lock before being loaded!
Yet again, luck played a major part in the outcome. Having seen the damage to the engine, the real miracle is that it kept turning at all! In hindsight it must be evident to everybody that bringing a severely stricken aircraft back to base to potentially crash (horridly) in front of 23,000 public spectators should've been the least likely option for a professional pilot? Remind me of the mantra.....It's only metal!!

Find this a bit of a strange point of view!

Not that im fully familiar with the area, or a pilot, but i expect the open countryside was fields that might have had standing crops with dry stone dykes marking the perimeter, maybe even power lines crossing, with a couple of built up areas also nearby. In the split second to make the decision, field in front of you or the clear airfield below you with a wide range of emergency equipment on standby to pull you out of a potential wreck, i know where im heading, even if it is someone like me(ok better than) that is pulling you out!
Arabest,
Geoff.

[jimbo]

Being a private pilot and given the choice I'd certainly be wanting to put my stricken aircraft down, on a nice smooth runway, with fire crews and medical staff on hand. Rather than pile into the unknown...

[jem60]

JIMBO,.I agree with you. I well remember being taught not to put any dangling bits down until sure of making the field, but the runway was pretty long, he had a fair bit of height, perhaps he could have put the gear down three seconds earlier, then it would have had time to lock and then landed with no damage??. But here I am, sitting in an armchair, not in a failing aircraft..........

[C24]

For once I can make a comment based on experience of the airfield, not speculation.

The area immediately surrounding the airfield is not flat, has Cornish hedges surrounding the fields &'landing a fixed wing aircraft would almost certainly result in disaster.
Predannack would have been an alternative but I imagine the aircraft was too far to get there. That would not have been considered by the pilot.

Also, it is much easier to make emergency landings during the daylight. I haven't read the report but from where I stand, the pilot made the right call.

[Chough]

I watched the Sea Fury incident from barely 100 yards from the runway threshold. The display was going as planned until suddenly white smoke emerged from the engine. Moments later the engine began to misfire and the pilot was headed away from Helston townand began losing height and then turned for a landing. As he approached the undercarriage was lowered then at the last moment was either pulled up or there was insufficient time for it to lock but he saved a valuable airframe and walked away. I think all who saw the incident were relieved and pleased with his skill and hopefully the aircraft will fly again soon. There was no way the Sea Fury would have made it to Predannack and not far from Culdrose are the aerials at Goonhilly.

[Amp]

Supra - the pilot did a great job in a plane with a broken engine and this has been widely acknowledged. His initial view and decisions had a positive result.

[Supra]

I cannot help having a different view on this! It's just my opinion. Preservation of the aircraft can never be the primary decision-driver. Preservation of the aircrews' lives is up there near the top of the list, but NOT at very real potential risk to the largest single gathering of innocent people in Cornwall on that day! I can't take anything away from Lt Cdr Chris Gotke for the result he achieved, but without a great deal of skill & luck it could've ended so differently?
It was IMHO a poor judgement to RTB. Although self-preservation was probably a small factor, as he had total confidence in his ability to recover the aircraft safely....that outcome was far from guaranteed. In hindsight the loss of altitude & speed in selecting gear-down & gear-up immediately post-engine failure possibly cost him those 3 extra seconds required to achieve a 100% positive result?
Reverting to one of many previous episodes of misplaced high expectations, my thoughts are drawn to one Charles Church whose sole intention after a developing engine failure was to recover to Blackbushe Airport. This left him short of the runway with no engine, no options, crashing & consumed by fire with his Spitfire destroyed. Clearly it would've been better to have landed off-airfield in an emergency. He made a judgement call, but without luck it cost him everything!

[C24]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _07-15.pdf

Read this bit, then speculate.

The crowd was not at risk. Downwind for 30 presents very NON-flat ground. Luck played a very small part in the outcome.

The pilot's best chance of survival was to put it on the airfield, saving the aircraft was a secondary consideration. Good job.

[ArabJazzie]

I dont know anything about the Charles Church crash and i may change that this evening, but why would anyone who had an engine failure with height to spare over the airfield with EMERGENCY CREWS ON IMMEDIATE STANDBY that he has just departed from, choose an unknown field a mile or 2 away!

Working at an airfield with a busy flying school, when practicing for engine failures on the downwind leg, the pilots dont choose a field or the river, they glide to land on the runway. We have even had a couple of rough runners that have been a fair distance away, used what power they had to keep and even gain height and made it on the black stuff with a final glide.

If they think they can make it, a pilot will always try and get to a runway!
Arabest,
Geoff.

[jem60]

There is a saying in flying that goes 'in the event of an engine failure, you don't choose the field, it chooses you!'
Always the airfield if possible, but options are ALWAYS kept open.
For non pilots, after takeoff, one expands the forced landing fields options 10 degrees either side of the nose whilst climbing out, and these options expand as height is gained. Similarly with landings, and I have NO DOUBT that Mr. Ghoetke knew his options in the event of emergency far better than we do on this site.[although I do wish he had put the gear down three seconds earlier!.]
Had a fuel blockage in a C.172 years ago, and I headed direct to the field, examining options all the way. Pleased to say it cleared itself. Display guys really know what they are doing!.

[bvs]

Supra - it is always easy to sit back in ones armchair and quietly review the events of an incident,but Goaty did not have the luxury of having lots of time to think about options for very long - he had to make immediate decisions and I agree with most people in that he made the correct decisions,he was within gliding range of a large airfield with emergency crews available and my personal view is that he made a very skilful forced landing.He had to retract the gear to be sure of reaching the rwy and was perhaps a little unlucky that the landing gear did not lock down fully on final approach.

[jem60]

The only criticism I can make [from the aforementioned armchair, from whence one can pontifacte till the cows come home] is that the gear should not have been lowered the first time, unless the pilot was sure of making the airfield. Having to retract it probably resulted in the landing not being as successful as it could gave been, but there isn't a single pilot, low time like me, highly experienced like many others, who hasn't made an error that could result in something nasty occurring at some point.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Rotörhead]

I'd say as well in addition to what everyone else has said, where do you think is the one place the pilot can 100% be sure that there is absolutely no one in the area whilst flying at an airshow? And where also is the one place that a pilot can also be sure that the ground will be smooth, flat and free of obstructions? And out of all the available options, which one is the closest?

The answer to all of those is Culdrose and in my opinion they are the reasons why the pilot made the right decision.

There have been instances before where Sea Furies and other aircraft have toppled over after landing on rough ground with gear down, causing the pilot to be crushed and killed.

[bvs]

Absolutely Olicat - TBH if you are in an aircraft which develops an engine problem and you are 'in the circuit' - then where you attempt to make a safe landing is a no brainer if you have enough height/speed to get to a reasonable 'low key' position.
When goaty made the original u/c 'down' selection he obviously realised very quickly that he would not have the necessary energy/glide angle to get to a safe low key which is why he then selected u/c up again.

edit sorry for any gliding terminology

[cj9ru]

Don't quite understand how you can see anything but the correct decision having been made. Would you put it down in a field when a runway was near and within glide? As stated above the only place he knew was free from obstructions and, more importantly people, was indeed where he put it.
In my opinion....great flying mate. Well done!

Far better a slightly bent and fixable aircraft than a dead pilot. That would help nobody.