FighterControl

Today is the last full day of SAR coverage provided over so many years from Culdrose by 771. XV670 was airborne a few minutes ago. The Navy have done a splendid job for us here in Cornwall over so many years and will be greatly missed .

Chough wrote:The Navy have done a splendid job for us here in Cornwall over so many years and will be greatly missed .

+1

+2

Thanks a million, guys

You are all heroes, in my eyes

Paddyboy

They (Gannet SAR certainly) were working right to the last.
Will we ever see a British military SAR helicopter again ?

Richard

Probably not

Would expect all helicopter squadrons RAF and RN will still carry out some sort of SAR training. The 'civil' operation must have been valuable training for the 'military' role of extracting aircrew / injured troops from hostile enviroments.

Expect the civil contractor will soon be on the phone when they can not deal with the work load.

Doughnut wrote:Would expect all helicopter squadrons RAF and RN will still carry out some sort of SAR training. The 'civil' operation must have been valuable training for the 'military' role of extracting aircrew / injured troops from hostile enviroments.

Expect the civil contractor will soon be on the phone when they can not deal with the work load.

Agree totally on this one.

What happens if we get major flooding like in Boscastle a few years back could the Civi's cope, or further back the Fastnet tragedy.

Thinks is pretty short sighted of the powers that be to remove this valuable service & replace it with a contract with a civil operator.

LM47 wrote:They (Gannet SAR certainly) were working right to the last.
Will we ever see a British military SAR helicopter again ?

Richard

Yes you will. 84sqn are still based in Cyprus and the sea king mk3 are under 1536 flt in the Falklands until May I think. Sartu at valley is still open I believe also.

The navy will have to ba able to provide its own SAR at sea when the carriers arrive . So military SAR isn't dead it's just not active as we have known it for all these years.

Andy_99 wrote:

Doughnut wrote:Would expect all helicopter squadrons RAF and RN will still carry out some sort of SAR training. The 'civil' operation must have been valuable training for the 'military' role of extracting aircrew / injured troops from hostile enviroments.

Expect the civil contractor will soon be on the phone when they can not deal with the work load.

Agree totally on this one.

What happens if we get major flooding like in Boscastle a few years back could the Civi's cope, or further back the Fastnet tragedy.

Thinks is pretty short sighted of the powers that be to remove this valuable service & replace it with a contract with a civil operator.

So how did the RAF/RN cope with Boscastle, didn't they have to call in reinforcements from other Sqds/Flts? Also airframe reliability has been greatly increased with the hand over to Bristows which means that there are now more helicopters dotted around the country able to respond to any such disaster. I think it was back in 2003 that the RAF had only 6 serviceable Sea Kings to cover all of it's detachments, things were so bad that the RN deployed one Sea King to Lossie for a couple of months to make up the numbers.

Most of these dreaded "civvies" are the same people that flew the RAF/RN Sea Kings, so couple their vast knowledge and experience with a much more capable airframe and I think we can all sleep soundly at night.

There will need to be a 'Plane Guard" for the carriers and I imagine that all Fleet Merlins have a winch as standard anyway.
The December issue of Navy News has a middle page spread about 771NAS.

I have always thought that a dedicated SAR squadron in our military was a sensible option, both for training and a backup for the civilian role. Eventually the civilian trained SAR crews will be less experienced, or at best with a narrower set of skills than military ones.
Best wishes for the new outfit.

C24 wrote: Eventually the civilian trained SAR crews will be less experienced, or at best with a narrower set of skills than military ones.
Best wishes for the new outfit.

How do work that one out then, aren't the new crews allowed to fly to the top of the highest mountains or out past the shallow waters off the coast?

Thunder wrote:

Andy_99 wrote:

Doughnut wrote:Would expect all helicopter squadrons RAF and RN will still carry out some sort of SAR training. The 'civil' operation must have been valuable training for the 'military' role of extracting aircrew / injured troops from hostile enviroments.

Expect the civil contractor will soon be on the phone when they can not deal with the work load.

Agree totally on this one.

What happens if we get major flooding like in Boscastle a few years back could the Civi's cope, or further back the Fastnet tragedy.

Thinks is pretty short sighted of the powers that be to remove this valuable service & replace it with a contract with a civil operator.

So how did the RAF/RN cope with Boscastle, didn't they have to call in reinforcements from other Sqds/Flts?

Yes, they did, and even then not all aircraft could operate at one time due to the confined location. Off the top of my head, in addition to Culdrose and Chivenor SAR helicopters, there were some from the Sea King OCU at St Mawgan, as well as the civil operated S-61s from Portland and an EC-135 from Cornwall Air Ambulance.

As said above, military aircrews will still train in SAR, and Merlins do often (if not always) have a winch fitted.

Heading over old ground here i think!

Having worked in civil aviation for all my working life, i really dont get why you think us civvies couldnt do the job? Its not as if the industry isnt full of ex-mil bods! Ok im not part of this SAR thing, but i have had the misfortune of having to watch as they got on with a few jobs.

C24 wrote:I have always thought that a dedicated SAR squadron in our military was a sensible option, both for training and a backup for the civilian role. Eventually the civilian trained SAR crews will be less experienced, or at best with a narrower set of skills than military ones.
Best wishes for the new outfit.

Sorry chap, but you look like you really dont know what you are talking about when you make statements like that! Dont know who does it now but CSAR used to be a Merlin tasking in the RAF. And if SAR crew training is anything like the training that i do, i dont think you have anything to worry about!

You guys who are using all of these "what ifs?", really need to look for some of those "what dids?" when the Sea King couldnt take on the tasking. Its not so long ago that all Sea Kings were having real issues and had to be grounded. So a call in the Firth of Forth usually handled by Boulmer during that time was dealt with by an S-92 from the Isles contract. The 92 went broke so they sent another one to complete the tasking with 2 still available. There was a long range shout off the coast of Ireland that would normally go to the USAFE to be dealt with. However, an S-92 crew picked up on it and carried out the task.

Then if you do some searching, you will find there has been some notable successes from civvie SAR. Im sure there has been a rescue featured on TV where the female pilot ended up with a commendation. The JIGSAW Super Pumas have done really well when called on, including one of the North Sea helicopter incidents and i think more recently rescuing some trawler men.

When the contract is fully up and running, there will be 20 brand new helicopters of 2 types which are 60 kts faster(S-92/SK), have a longer endurance and in some cases, will be more capable and crewed by people who WILL know what they are doing!
Arabest,
Geoff.

These were the words which formed part of the write up for the drawdown of 771 by the Royal Navy on Twitter today.

‘Search and Rescue’ will continue for the Royal Navy - it is essential to flying operations at sea - but from January 1st 2016, the baton of responsibility for the provision of UK civilian search and rescue was handed to the Maritime and Coastguard Agency contractor Bristow Helicopters, based at Newquay airport.

ArabJazzie wrote:Heading over old ground here i think!

Having worked in civil aviation for all my working life.......

which are 60 kts faster(S-92/SK), have a longer endurance and in some cases, will be more capable and crewed by people who WILL know what they are doing!
Arabest,
Geoff.

Well said Sir, unfortunately there are those of us who work in civil aviation engineering/operation/contracts and those with rose tinted spectacles who can't see further than the good old days of the Sea King and don't understand aircraft operation. As you say new and faster aircraft and a contract that covers the requirement, operated by professionals.