Info from JanesGareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's International Defence Review
27 October 2014
The United Kingdom is to begin the process of upgrading its fleet of Raytheon Sentinel R.1 Airborne Stand-Off Radar (ASTOR) surveillance aircraft to conduct maritime operations in mid-2015, the government disclosed on 24 October.
Answering questions in the House of Commons, the parliamentary undersecretary of state for defence, Philip Dunne, said that a contract for the development and installation of the maritime-capable software upgrade aboard the Royal Air Force's (RAF's) five aircraft will be signed in spring (Q2) 2015.
In late 2013 Raytheon first touted using the platform as a possible solution to bridge the United Kingdom's maritime patrol capability gap. As the aircraft is already equipped with a DB-110 dual-band (synthetic aperture radar and ground moving-target indicator modes) airborne reconnaissance sensor, the upgrade would largely involve modifying the sensor's software rather than installing new hardware.
This upgrade should enable the Sentinel R.1 to detect surface vessels and potentially submarine periscopes. Additional sensors could be fitted to further boost the platform's maritime surveillance capability.
Dunne did not disclose when work might begin and end, nor did he disclose a potential contract value.
The Sentinel R.1 was originally slated to be retired in 2015 as a result of budget cuts announced in the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in 2010, but an impressive showing in Afghanistan and Libya has prompted the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to delay this until 2018.
ANALYSIS
The news that work to upgrade the Sentinel R.1's maritime capabilities will soon begin follows the disclosure at the Farnborough Airshow in July that the RAF is looking to introduce enhanced capabilities to the surveillance aircraft to turn it into a true multi-mission platform.
However, while reprieving the aircraft and expanding the scope of its mission set might seem like an ideal solution for the MoD to bridge its maritime patrol capability gap, it should be noted that the Sentinel R.1 would be unarmed. It would have no offensive anti-submarine warfare (ASW) or anti-surface vessel warfare (ASuW) capability whatsoever.
Despite this, an upgraded Sentinel R.1 could provide the United Kingdom with a very useful maritime surveillance capability, which could be supplemented by a more advanced (and expensive) ASW/ASuW platform, such as the Boeing P-8A Poseidon.
This combination would enable the MoD to field the full-spectrum maritime patrol capability that it lost with the cancellation of the BAE Systems Nimrod MRA4 in 2010. The 'low-end' Sentinel R.1s could be used for everyday maritime surveillance, saving the 'high-end' P-8A Poseidons for the less common ASW/ASuW and long-range search and rescue missions.
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UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Re: RAF Sentinels to be upgraded for Maritime Ops
You have to ask why they didn't just do that in the first place?
Re: RAF Sentinels to be upgraded for Maritime Ops
Probably due to the fact that when Sentinel was procured and introduced into service, Nimrod was still in use and MRA4 was just around the corner and SDSR 2010 was not wielding its axe.Unknown74 wrote:You have to ask why they didn't just do that in the first place?
Dinger.
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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
What sort of range and endurance does the Sentinel have ?
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
According to this link
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles ... 735AD8.pdf
Over 5000 Miles so not bad
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles ... 735AD8.pdf
Over 5000 Miles so not bad
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Dinger I really meant to say after the Nimrod was cancelled.
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
At the time, Sentinel was heavily involved over Afghanistan and was subsequently axed during SDSR 10 only to be reprieved earlier this year until the end of 2018. So why develop a martime role for a platform that was due to be withdrawn initially in March 2015?Unknown74 wrote:Dinger I really meant to say after the Nimrod was cancelled.
Dinger.
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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Doesn't look as though we'll be getting those P-8's any day soon...
Arthur

Arthur
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
I think the Sentinel will make a good platform, nice to see them with pylons for weapons if that's how they intend to equip it. All we need is a good stable aircraft to work from and the Sentinel seems a good cheaper option, especially against the cost of a P-8. I wonder what this forum would have made of the comet being named as the airframe for our new maritime aircraft?! 

Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
The Sentinel is already a weight critical platform so there is very little capacity for the installation of more equipment. Limited equipment fit with software upgrades is my opinion on a very limited maritime capability.
Dinger
Dinger
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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Maybe I misread the report but I thought that it said there would be no offensive capability for anti Submarine and anti surface so there's no chance of pylons especially with the weight issue already.Tronk 11 wrote:I think the Sentinel will make a good platform, nice to see them with pylons for weapons if that's how they intend to equip it. All we need is a good stable aircraft to work from and the Sentinel seems a good cheaper option, especially against the cost of a P-8. I wonder what this forum would have made of the comet being named as the airframe for our new maritime aircraft?!

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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
I seem to recall even the AAR capability was dumped for weight saving issues....
I wonder if we should have bought the Gulfstream 4 or was it 5 way back in 1999 now..
Tim S
I wonder if we should have bought the Gulfstream 4 or was it 5 way back in 1999 now..
Tim S
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Ah that spoils things a bit. So we can find the subs but don't have the ability to attack them.
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
It will only find them on the surface. No MAD boom, no sonar buoys, no weapons.Tronk 11 wrote:Ah that spoils things a bit. So we can find the subs but don't have the ability to attack them.

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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
I guess its for other maritime duties too. I've heard them doing FAC work with the radar and its VERY good. Its a cheap option so don't expect it to be an orion or nimrod. Is it better than what we have now?
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
No sonobouy capability, no EO/IR camera turret, only one dedicated sensor, no capacity to hang weapons from it or indeed carry SAR equipment leaves Sentinel as a one trick pony with a maritime software upgrade for the existing sensor. Maybe it could be used as a companion to say the P-8 as the USN are using the MQ-4C Triton as a companion to the P-8. It will be interesting to see how this develops. The sceptic in me says it is a marketing ploy by Raytheon at best. As an after thought, the first development P-8 has been retrofitted with an advanced version of the LSRS pod that is fitted to some P-3's. Could this be a possible solution to our MPA requirements as it would be a true multi mission aircraft.
Dinger.
Dinger.
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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Tronk 11
The only current MARPAT we have is a bit of the following in various forms
C-130J Hercules with Rescue kit etc etc
Merlin HM.1 and (2 presumably) Search Radar etc
And the Sentry AEW.1 which has performed on scene mission commander/relay aircraft, for similar to the Oil Rig (false bomb?) incident a couple of years back
Nothing that does what a Nimrod does/did
Tim S
Edit Dinger has added a little more than I can think of right now
The only current MARPAT we have is a bit of the following in various forms
C-130J Hercules with Rescue kit etc etc
Merlin HM.1 and (2 presumably) Search Radar etc
And the Sentry AEW.1 which has performed on scene mission commander/relay aircraft, for similar to the Oil Rig (false bomb?) incident a couple of years back
Nothing that does what a Nimrod does/did
Tim S
Edit Dinger has added a little more than I can think of right now
Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Hello Vulcanone,
Thanks for the info, I knew the bits you mentioned. E-3's are used for rescue missions I've heard them too, it seems a bit expensive, especially when you need all of the other kit like the C-130 & Merlins to get the subs out.
I mentioned the Nimrod as a gauge of how people would think nowadays if we said we'd take on an aircraft that developed problems with the commercial community as they crashed due to design problems & were dropped like a lead balloon. I doubt it would get much support?
The Nimrod was a superb aircraft, I know as I knew guys who flew it & loved it to bits.
The thing is, its days were up as its an old machine, (the politicians cocked up the new Nimrod) so we either pay a lot of money for P-8's & the conditions Boeing/US Navy put on us, or develop the Sentinel. Tens of millions v hundreds of millions of pounds? Politics will have a say in this too. I'm sure the Sentinel guys would love an all singing & dancing jet, but they will/can develop what they have to do a job they are given. The Nimrod also used to catch ships too, & I think the Sentinel can do this better than the Nimrod, but like I said I'm no expert.
I'm sure it will be used for pirates in Somalia who don't use subs, the subs are a costly machine to run, & as the Swedes have shown us they aren't easy to find, especially in a small area, & we have the North Sea & Atlantic. Who uses them who don't like us, Russia & China at a quick guess.
I'm thankful that we'll KEEP some jets & the RAF/RN will keep some jobs, they deserve it for superb work & adapting. I think LOTS of troops owe their lives to these jets & crew.
Thanks for the info, I knew the bits you mentioned. E-3's are used for rescue missions I've heard them too, it seems a bit expensive, especially when you need all of the other kit like the C-130 & Merlins to get the subs out.
I mentioned the Nimrod as a gauge of how people would think nowadays if we said we'd take on an aircraft that developed problems with the commercial community as they crashed due to design problems & were dropped like a lead balloon. I doubt it would get much support?
The Nimrod was a superb aircraft, I know as I knew guys who flew it & loved it to bits.
The thing is, its days were up as its an old machine, (the politicians cocked up the new Nimrod) so we either pay a lot of money for P-8's & the conditions Boeing/US Navy put on us, or develop the Sentinel. Tens of millions v hundreds of millions of pounds? Politics will have a say in this too. I'm sure the Sentinel guys would love an all singing & dancing jet, but they will/can develop what they have to do a job they are given. The Nimrod also used to catch ships too, & I think the Sentinel can do this better than the Nimrod, but like I said I'm no expert.
I'm sure it will be used for pirates in Somalia who don't use subs, the subs are a costly machine to run, & as the Swedes have shown us they aren't easy to find, especially in a small area, & we have the North Sea & Atlantic. Who uses them who don't like us, Russia & China at a quick guess.
I'm thankful that we'll KEEP some jets & the RAF/RN will keep some jobs, they deserve it for superb work & adapting. I think LOTS of troops owe their lives to these jets & crew.
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Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Just another cluster f 

Re: UK to upgrade Sentinel R.1s for maritime operations
Dinger is spot on talking about using the Sentinel like an MQ-4 Triton. The maritime upgrade is merely a piece of software, another option being examined is the removal of the downlink system and replacing it with a EO/IR camera, but that might not be until after 2018, and of course we are only planning to keep the jet until then...for now!
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