492nd & 494th FS stood down as of 9th April + 15 other sqn

[POL]

Had forgetten about the Geilenkirchen Tankers, guess these are funded by NATO. Surely these are not need in the same way as years ago when AWACS were on a 24 hour airborne duty ? Are they used more as a training asset to keep AWACS crews AAR current ?

That's a good question, actually, I'm not too sure!

ESSO76 was up for three hours over Holland yesterday evening (18z - 21z), replacing ESSO75 which had been up since around 1430z, so it seems they're up quite a lot - obviously that doesn't help with what they tank, however!

[page_verify]

"The end of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will allow U.S. ground forces in Europe to focus on training and reassess their mission amid spending cuts, the commander of U.S. Army-Europe said Monday."

That answers that!

[Thunder]

This could be a case of "deja vu"

As has been said before the threat no longer lies in Europe or even the surrounding area. Maybe with the exception of Ramstein every USAF base in Europe could be shut and it assets moved back Stateside or into the Pacific area of operations. They could keep both Fairford and Incirlik as FOB's for/if the need arose. The actual costs of operating/maintaining the a/c is minuscule when you compare it to the overall cost of basing personnel and their families overseas.

For those of us that are old enough to remember the good days of the 80's

Bitburg
Zweibrucken
Hahn
Sembach
Soesterburg
Alconbury
Woodbridge/Bentwaters
Upper Heyford
Torrejon
Zaragoza

have all shut as active flying bases as far as the USAF are concerned, the list for non flying bases is far greater.

The UK will have removed all of it's military assets from Germany by 2020 so why should the USA be thinking differently and they're in a far worse state than us financially

[welshandy]

Surely an F-15E squadron would be replaced with an F-16CG/CJ squadron? Not sure the USAF would replace an air-defence/superiority squadron with a ground-attack/SEAD one?

Stranger things have happened, of course!

493rd are used for the Baltic air policing role so can't see them go. I agree replace a F15E sqn with the F16's from SP then IMHO you have a full multi role FW (air defence/sead/strike)

[Thunder]

I can't see your logic behind the Baltic Air Policing safeguarding the 493rd? The air policing is a NATO tasking not an USAF one so any gap would simply have to be covered by the other NATO members.

Remember the 57FIS covered Iceland up until the mid 90's but they disbanded.

[page_verify]

Thunder, that's not strictly true - the USAF would have to pay for someone else to provide the fighter cover if they were to withdraw their capability. The same applies for the RAF's E-3 contribution, keeping the fleet is cheaper than paying in lieu of providing.

[3Greens]

Construction at a USAFE base? Doomed to close soon then!

'Kiss of Death' when they decorated the Guardroom at Binbrook and laid a new concrete apron outside 11 Sqdns hangar.

Dependent on 'situations' elsewhere that are currently looming the European theatre will inevitably wind down. It just blows my mind when I look at the constant daily stream of heavy transports (fuel costs ) routing back/forth through Europe to support the 'sandy places'

I don't what status Lakenheath has for simulator work, but the maintenance crews should be remain busy with alot of 'ground runs', as aeroplanes that stand about without a regular 'blow through' ....can be bad news

[TankBuster]

I tend to agree that out of the three F-15 squadrons at LN the 493rd are probably the most secure, in terms of their future in Europe. There is a need for fighters to protect the USAF refuelling and transport aircraft that operate in the European theatre.

I'd like to think that both Mildenhall & LN are safe, considering that they are on UK soil, which after all is the USA's closest ally. We've all seen in the past how quickly Mildenhall can become a hive of activity with transport aircraft & with the current downscaling of things I guess that Mildenhall could eventually absorb the operations from Ramstein?

At the moment anything is possible?.. Isn't it?...

TankBuster

[Thunder]

There is a need for fighters to protect the USAF refuelling and transport aircraft that operate in the European theatre.

You only need refuellers and transport a/c if you need to support something else. Take away the fast jets and you have nothing to refuel or transport for

I'd like to think that both Mildenhall & LN are safe, considering that they are on UK soil, which after all is the USA's closest ally.

Would like to agree with you, but didn't stop them closing Alconbury, Upper Heyford, Woodbridge/Bentwaters, Greenham Common. The fact is there is little need for these bases now. The US have for a long time now been saying they're going to relocate many of their assets from Europe to the Pacific, as that is where they see the greatest threat.

I guess that Mildenhall could eventually absorb the operations from Ramstein?

If anything it would be the other way round, as long as the US Army have a presence in Germany then Ramstein is safe.

[POL]

You only need refuellers and transport a/c if you need to support something else. Take away the fast jets and you have nothing to refuel or transport for

Are you sure about that?

Surely the USAF transport fleet do more than fly some spare parts for F-15/16s around?!

[Thunder]

Ok then what else do they fly around?

[TankBuster]

What ever happens, I think its very likely that everything will eventually get thrown into the pot & then get reviewed to ensure that money is not being wasted in any areas.

We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds for the whole of the USAF, not just the USAFE assets.


TankBuster

[Viper28]

Surely an F-15E squadron would be replaced with an F-16CG/CJ squadron? Not sure the USAF would replace an air-defence/superiority squadron with a ground-attack/SEAD one?

Stranger things have happened, of course!

493rd are used for the Baltic air policing role so can't see them go. I agree replace a F15E sqn with the F16's from SP then IMHO you have a full multi role FW (air defence/sead/strike)

The Baltic policing role is hardly a reason to keep the 493rd at LN. You are forward deploying assets for that anyway. That could, for example, be acheived from the Langley based wing (or potentially any National Guard unit). Protecting the 100th ARW tankers is probably a better reason. Remember also that the 493rd has already lost a number of airframes and is, I beleive, under strength anyway. I beleive it was not included in the stand-down yesterday as, ironically, its about to deploy for the Baltic again.

Don't get me wrong I don't want to see ANYTHING go from LN but in the current environment, I think the 48th will be luck to go into 2014 FY intact.

[Gary]

A little bit of info posted on the Lakenheath website

No official release on possible RAF Lakenheath F-15 stand down

Posted 4/10/2013 Updated 4/10/2013 E

From Staff reports
48th Fighter Wing Public Affairs

4/10/2013 - ROYAL AIR FORCE LAKENHEATH, England - -- U.S. Air Force officials began to stand down active-duty combat units April 9 to ensure remaining units supporting worldwide operations can maintain sufficient readiness through the remainder of the fiscal year.

At this time, no official information has been released on whether RAF Lakenheath will be grounding any of its approximately 75 F-15 fighter aircraft. The base will release more information as it becomes available.

Wing leadership would like to reassure the public that even in the event of a stand down of aircraft at RAF Lakenheath, there will be no change to the base's manning. The 4,500 Airmen and 2,000 civilian employees will remain a part of the local community, and normal duty cycles will continue.

Additional information will be provided Thursday, April 11.

Info fromLakenheath website

waiting with baited breath for tomorrow info

[li'l spotter]

Why cut the f15's and non american based aircraft not the american trainers the goshawks? Because when the pilot's get trained they might not be able to fly the aircraft they're being trained for as they've been cut till september!

[POL]

Goshawks are Navy aircraft, for starters. Talons and Goshawks are also much, much cheaper to fly and maintain, but they - again - don't fall under Air Combat Command's flying budget, so aren't listed in this. I'd imagine they are being cut.

Rethink "why are they cutting non-American based American aircraft", too, and you might see the logic.

[steve149c]

Why cut the f15's and non american based aircraft not the american trainers the goshawks? Because when the pilot's get trained they might not be able to fly the aircraft they're being trained for as they've been cut till september!

For one - Goshawk are Navy/Marine jets, the USAF use T-38 and T-6 Texan (Chris beat me too it )

Why cut non- American based aircraft - simple, the State governors and politicans will all be fighting any cuts in their States, so the easy options for cutting are outside of the US. Unfortunately that means Europe.

More snippets here http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/a ... lue-angels" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Air Force didn't immediately release a list of the specific units and bases that would be affected, but it said it would cover some fighters like F-16 Fighting Falcons and F-22 Raptors, and some airborne warning and control aircraft in the U.S., Europe and the Pacific

AEW birds

On Wednesday, when President Barack Obama submits his fiscal year 2014 budget, the Pentagon blueprint is expected to include requests for two rounds of domestic base closings in 2015 and 2017, a pay raise of only 1 percent for military personnel and a revival of last year's plan to increase health care fees and implement new ones, according to several defense analysts.

Standby - this might get bumpy!

Its a sad state of affairs - but I still believe that the US economy will come out of Sequestrian alot stronger

Steve

[mcewenfan]

If, as it appears, the base stands down two squadrons of jets (50 or so) then what do all the personnel do?
Do the Pilots and Rears go elsewhere to stay current? Do they spread the hours around everyone.
What about the maintenance crews in fact what about the whole base staff?
We loose watching a few Jets this is their lives!

Then there is what happens in September when they all come back on line - Can they?
Also Further cuts - Lakenheath and Mildenhall must cost a fortune to keep could one be up for closeure?

Not good days and I'm just a watcher/Photographer.

[LN Strike Eagle]

If, as it appears, the base stands down two squadrons of jets (50 or so) then what do all the personnel do?
Do the Pilots and Rears go elsewhere to stay current? Do they spread the hours around everyone.
What about the maintenance crews in fact what about the whole base staff?
We loose watching a few Jets this is their lives!

Then there is what happens in September when they all come back on line - Can they?
Also Further cuts - Lakenheath and Mildenhall must cost a fortune to keep could one be up for closeure?

Not good days and I'm just a watcher/Photographer.

From one of the press releases posted earlier in this thread:

Units that are stood down will shift their emphasis to ground training. They will use flight simulators to the extent possible within existing contracts, and conduct academic training to maintain basic skills and knowledge of their aircraft. As funding allows, aircrews will also complete formal ground training courses, conduct non-flying exercises and improve local flying-related programs and guidance.

Maintainers will complete upgrade training and clear up backlogs of scheduled inspections and maintenance as possible given budget impacts in other areas, such as stock of spare parts.

Although each weapon system is unique, on average aircrews lose currency to fly combat missions within 90 to 120 days of not flying. It generally takes 60 to 90 days to conduct the training needed to return aircrews to mission-ready status, and the time and cost associated with that retraining increases the longer that crews stay on the ground.

[tonkatom]

I feared this day would come,im only 23 ,but since 12-13 years old I remember the busy summer days at lakenheath,waves after waves of eagles,I would say it was lakenheath that really hooked me on this hobby.
I have always thought about the day that the Americans leave this country or cut back on the aircraft numbers that the airspace and comms will be dramatically reduced.marham are constantly stretched,valley are cutting down too the t2 in the future,comingsby is about the only place too photograph in the country with a steady flow of fast jets!
This is a big turning point in this hobby,and can only hope that the USA try and salvage some money for the 48th FW too stay in the uk with a forever great presence.Its been an honour over the years listening too them get totally lost and hammering lfa7 with flights of 4! The hobby in this country wouldn't be the same with out them.
I may be speaking about them going without a definet decision ,but you don't cease flying of 2 squadrons of eagles for no reason,I feel it's rather serious and can see the base never being the same as I remember it as a wide eyed boy smelling the lovely smell of av gas and watching my first fighter jet climb like no ones business.