UK to extend Typhoon OSD to 2040 and form additional two sqn

[ythanpythan]

Responding to him, the PM says ''Scotland is getting more Typhoons and maritime vessels''

A clue maybe?

I took that answer in the context of Scotland as part of the UK gets more Typhoons and maritime vessels, i.e. the UK plc will have more so the constituent nations have more. Not necessarily a basing statement.

[Thunder]

Leemings HAS sites (along with Honington) were at the time of commissioning the most advanced in the Air Force.

[Phoon]

Leemings HAS sites (along with Honington) were at the time of commissioning the most advanced in the Air Force.

Whats funny about that? Honington's HAS (and probably others) were part NATO funded, I believe there was some disgruntlement when fixed wing flying ceased there from the quater staht had provided said funds.

Best thing that could happen is Scotland rattles on about independance again, they get it, RAF pulls out totally.....

[plmc135]

With the RAF's current missions involving Iraq and possibly soon to be Syria, basing one of the new Typhoon squadrons at RAF Akrotiri may be a potential answer. They certainly have got plenty of space.

Paul

[clarke]

hI
I i think basing two typhoon sqns at leuchars would right a wrong just like the scrapping of the nimrods, the government have admitted the last review was a mess, the RAF has stated that the gap between lossie and coningsby is two large, however there is the question of the hole in east fifes economy and the damage that it caused as regards the army , haven't seen any!
dave-c

[Gary]

With the RAF's current missions involving Iraq and possibly soon to be Syria, basing one of the new Typhoon squadrons at RAF Akrotiri may be a potential answer. They certainly have got plenty of space.

Paul

Speaking to some blue suiters from Marham recently, there was lots of rumours on base in the lead up to the SDSR , saying a 4th Tornados squadron would be raised because of Op Shader. Looks like the rumours came to nothing

[Surfrdan]

With the RAF's current missions involving Iraq and possibly soon to be Syria, basing one of the new Typhoon squadrons at RAF Akrotiri may be a potential answer. They certainly have got plenty of space.

Paul

Speaking to some blue suiters from Marham recently, there was lots of rumours on base in the lead up to the SDSR , saying a 4th Tornados squadron would be raised because of Op Shader. Looks like the rumours came to nothing

Unless you consider XV moving down to Marham to make space for extra Typhoons

[Vulcanone]

I think the biggest problem right now for the Tornado force is the SDSR2010 decision to get rid of the Dominies as they thought that as part of the force drawdown they wouldn't need so many navigators.

How wrong that was. I suppose they could put a revitalised XV into Marham, as an operational Sqn with a Training flight within. Remember that The LTF at Binbrook was actually formed from C Flight of 11 Sqn. Just a possible thought..

Tim S

[Thunder]

Whats funny about that? Honington's HAS (and probably others) were part NATO funded, I believe there was some disgruntlement when fixed wing flying ceased there from the quater staht had provided said funds.

Best thing that could happen is Scotland rattles on about independance again, they get it, RAF pulls out totally.....

All HAS's built on RAF airfields(not USAFE) within the UK were put up between 1981(Honington) and 1989(St Mawgan) and all were built using NATO funding to the same 3rd Generation design. As each airfield HAS complex was designed/built some improvements were made which would then mean that St Mawgan and Lossie have the most advanced, but they don't. All HAS's are more or less the same with very little in the way of technology in them.

Honington was no different to any other base that had NATO funding during the 70/80's, then found itself surplus to requirements once the 90's arrived and the Cold War ceased. In the UK alone, Bentwaters, Woodbridge, Alconbury, Upper Heyford and Wattisham all found themselves in the same position.


Going by your last sentence I take that your argument is based on you being anti-Scottish, which of course is your prerogative.

[Phoon]

Whats funny about that? Honington's HAS (and probably others) were part NATO funded, I believe there was some disgruntlement when fixed wing flying ceased there from the quater staht had provided said funds.

Best thing that could happen is Scotland rattles on about independance again, they get it, RAF pulls out totally.....

All HAS's built on RAF airfields(not USAFE) within the UK were put up between 1981(Honington) and 1989(St Mawgan) and all were built using NATO funding to the same 3rd Generation design. As each airfield HAS complex was designed/built some improvements were made which would then mean that St Mawgan and Lossie have the most advanced, but they don't. All HAS's are more or less the same with very little in the way of technology in them.

Honington was no different to any other base that had NATO funding during the 70/80's, then found itself surplus to requirements once the 90's arrived and the Cold War ceased. In the UK alone, Bentwaters, Woodbridge, Alconbury, Upper Heyford and Wattisham all found themselves in the same position.


Going by your last sentence I take that your argument is based on you being anti-Scottish, which of course is your prerogative.

No I think Scotland is fantastic. An independent airforce consisting of a pair of Cessnas would be immense.

[Andy_99]

Scotland are already getting the P8 so a great deal of investment already North of the country.

Why shouldn't Leeming get some investment as well ? Or come to that any base in England

In my opinion the investment should be spread throughout the country & on a side note the SNP keep muttering about re-visiting the whole independence question If I were in charge at Westminster I'd be a bit cautious about investing heavily in a nation that may well be looking at breaking away from the union in the not too distant future.


Thats a whole new can of worms though

[Thunder]

Scotland are already getting the P8 so a great deal of investment already North of the country.

Why shouldn't Leeming get some investment as well ? Or come to that any base in England

In my opinion the investment should be spread throughout the country & on a side note the SNP keep muttering about re-visiting the whole independence question If I were in charge at Westminster I'd be a bit cautious about investing heavily in a nation that may well be looking at breaking away from the union in the not too distant future.


Thats a whole new can of worms though

So where exactly is Marham then? Then you have the millions already spent on Brize Norton, Waddington, Coningsby and Yeovilton. Remember we lost two out of three air stations in the last SDSR so I think it's only fair to restore some of what was lost.

I wish you people South of the border would give up on the Independence argument , it ain't going to happen so it looks like we're stuck with one another for the foreseeable future.

[the concerned]

Is there a reason why the typhoon ocu couldn't move to valley where it is close to wales for training freeing up space at coningsby

[POL]

It's not that simple. It's not just the aircraft along with aircrew / groundcrew. Can you begin to imagine the cost of the support infrastructure required? Engineering bays, Simulator facilities, Accommodation for the personnel - bearing in mind an OCU will have a higher compliment of personnel than your average Sqn.

Not to mention further away from Donna Nook and Holbeach ranges and, perhaps most importantly, the D323 complex.

[the concerned]

Ok what about the RAF taking over mildenhall

[Thunder]

Mildenhall has been wired(Electrically)to provide power in accordance with USA standards 120v 60Hz, everything would have to be ripped out and re done. Far too much money. It's all about money, if you start opening new bases or major refurbishment work then they'll be no money for the a/c.

[rva65]

Something tells me Mildenhall will eventually go the same way as other disused airfields, housing!

[C24]

We can't have it both ways "rva65", either we get the hardware to bomb the Begesus out of the Middle East and have somewhere to house the families that we displace or the money gets spent on a new railway line and LHR's third runway and rehousing for the people we displace.

[Malcolm]

Hi, Sorry if it sounds silly or I have completely missed something but its been bugging me since this whole topic began.

In the first post the The RAF currently field 192 combat aircraft, made up of 87 Tornados; 53 Tranche 1 Typhoons; and 52 Tranche 2 and Tranche 3A Typhoons, deliveries of which are ongoing.

The Tranche 1/2/3 planes I assume are all single seat and the 2 seaters are not included in this ?

I cannot seem to make the numbers of planes mentioned on here or wiki add up. 105 Typhoons mentioned above. Also mentioned among these pages is that the average Squadron has 12 planes. My thinking based on this is when we get the 2 new sqns that will account for 84 planes leaving 21 still doing what ??? (or are these 21 the 2 seaters ?)

Secondly on Wiki it mentions 53 Tranche 1 / 67 Tranche 2 and 40 tranche 3 totaling 160. Now I know Wiki isn't always 100% accurate but its normally pretty close so suprised to see wiki claiming we have 55 more than the other source.

Any clarification for either questions would be greatful, Thanks

I make it...

Tranche 1 single seats = ZJ910-ZJ943 (34 aircraft)
Tranche 1 dual seats = ZJ800-ZJ815 (16 aircraft)
Total = 50 aircraft

Tranche 2 single seats = ZJ944-ZJ950, ZK300-ZK302, ZK304-ZK354 (61 aircraft)
Tranche 2 dual seats = ZK303, ZK379-ZK383 (6 aircraft)
Total = 67 aircraft

There are no Tranche 3's in service yet - they're all still stored at Warton AFAIK awaiting various people to make decisions .

Subtract the 2 dead ones, 3 permanently at Warton, and 4 Christmas trees and I think we're at 108 available for squadron use. 4 are down south talking penguin, so 104 in the UK. At any one time there are always 20-25% of the fleet undergoing upgrades, and/or major/minor servicing. So perhaps at best 80 available at any one time.

29 Sqn is larger than a normal squadron, so say 20 aircraft for it, and then 12 aircraft each for the 5 other front line sqns and you're at 80 aircraft (5x12 + 20). Oh forgot 41Sqn - they've got 4 too.

Releasing the 40 Tranche 3A aircraft to squadrons should be enough to form 2 more squadrons, allowing for one (or two) Christmas trees, a couple for 41Sqn and 20%-25% undergoing maintainace at any one time

[Mike]

A great post Malcolm.

Russ, there are some Typhoons at Coningsby that were delivered from Warton that have never flown since, they have been taken to bits for spare parts - these are known as "Christmas trees" or "Hangar queens".

Sad, isn't it?