Red Arrows in Turmoil ?

[dotwatcher01]

The Hawk project was funded by Hawker Siddeley Aviation as a private venture, in anticipation of possible RAF interest. How the world has moved on since then. Can you imagine the bean-counters running, umm, just about everything, allowing a company to invest on-spec? What, imho, BAe should've done when they built the T-2s was slip an extra dozen in work, and offer the Royal Air Force a lend-lease type arrangement - I don't mean squillionaires could charter the back seat for a day trip to the Cote d'Azur, but perhaps BAe could have used some of these aircraft for sales tours, which, with over 1000 units built to date, would have undoubtedly (eventually) paid dividends. Instead of which, top front-line pilots, male, female, b...k, w...e, any shade of either in between, are asked to vacate their sparkly new Typhoons and Lightnings for a 45 year old jet for relatively few displays each year. And live/work in Lincolnshire. Romantic etc relationships can and do happen all over the workplace, although I believe it is a no-go area in the forces (I'm sure other readers will know better) and for sure it would never have happened with the Blue Diamonds, Black Arrows, Yellow Jacks - you may draw your own conclusions as to why. This is a plane spotters site, we want more new noz!!

[Philly1971]

The service and the country
are close to bankrupt, so let's suck it up, make hard decisions and go for the best value for money we can get.

Maybe someone should put a sneaky call into The Daily Mail saying there is a rumour the Reds are going to be scrapped and the government are planning to replace them on official flypasts by asking France to send over their Patrouille de France team instead. Guaranteed a brand new budget for nice shiny new T2s would suddenly be found within a few weeks!

[Hurn]

The Reds have cancelled their display at Sidmouth today due to 'a number of engineering issues'.

[cat1]

Just pulled out of sidmouth airshow for technical reasons

[XR713]

At Clacton they ended up with only Five finishing their display today.

[jonnyweb]

Just pulled out of sidmouth airshow for technical reasons

Ahh .. That was her name then

[timb]

And they only displayed with 6 a few weeks back at Falmouth. Perhaps a little harsh, but I,m afraid the public may start to fall out of love with them if things continue this way.

[slogen51]

On the other hand just watched a good video of the Reds at Clacton doing that cork screw manoeuvre which still looks brilliant head on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Natalie1519911

[C24]

FYI

The head of the Royal Air Force has promised to address concerns raised about the service's culture "as a priority".

The RAF has been at the centre of a series of media reports in recent weeks, including accusations of misogyny, bullying and sexual harassment within the Red Arrows.

Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, has written a letter to personnel, stating there are "legitimate questions being asked".

The service chief said those with concerns, including concerns that could expose the RAF to "significant criticism or harm" should go through a confidential defence helpline or the RAF Police if they do not feel they can raise the issue through the chain of command.

Alongside these issues, reports that the air force looked to prioritise certain demographics over white men in its recruitment and diversity strategy will be addressed at a board meeting early next month.

The note to personnel said the "quality" of "new entrants" has not suffered due to "attempts to widen" recruiting.

The full letter reads: "You will be well aware of the ongoing focus on the Royal Air Force in the media and on social media, on a number of topics, over the past weeks. I am acutely conscious that the coverage affects us all – whether regular, reserve, civil servant, or contractor – as well as our families and loved ones; and there are legitimate questions being asked which I am determined we will address as a priority.

"I am hugely proud of the passion and commitment I see from you each and every day across all our operational tasks and supporting activity. We have a well-earned reputation for excellence in all that we do to protect the UK, and I, like you, cherish that reputation dearly.

"It is right that when issues are raised we take swift action to address them, and we continue to strive for an open and honest reporting culture within the service. I thank all of you for the part you play in that, our commanders and line managers especially. If you have a concern about an issue or risk that you believe contravenes the values and standards of the service or the Civil Service Code, or exposes the organisation to significant criticism or harm, I encourage you to raise it through the correct channels, your chain of command in the first instance or, if you feel unable to do so for any reason, via the MOD’s confidential helpline or the RAF Police.

"Recent news coverage has addressed our values and standards, our culture and behaviours, and our determination to meet the MOD's level of ambition for diversity. All of this will be the focus of an Air Force Board meeting on 7 September. As a leadership team, we are clear that unacceptable behaviours have no place in our service. We also remain committed to increasing our diversity and I can confirm categorically that neither our operational effectiveness, nor the quality of our new entrants has suffered as a result of our attempts to widen our recruiting from across society.

"We continue to deliver against every operational task asked of us by the government; the RAF is deployed extensively, operationally active, and is indisputably lethal, and nothing in that regard has been or ever will be compromised by our drive to attract and recruit people from the widest pool of talent in the UK workforce.

"We play a critical role in the security and defence of the UK and our allies, and that is where our primary effort must always be. I would ask that commanders and line managers at all levels continue to support your teams, and to ensure nobody feels isolated or marginalised. It is essential now more than ever that we pull together and focus on our essential purpose: global air and space power to protect our nation."

TAGS
RAF
NEWS

[Tally-ho]

Interesting ... thank you for that insightful post.

Suffice to say that Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston is clearly feeling the heat, as he should. This is no time for social engineering experiments.

[teeonefixer]

The Hawk project was funded by Hawker Siddeley Aviation as a private venture, in anticipation of possible RAF interest. How the world has moved on since then. Can you imagine the bean-counters running, umm, just about everything, allowing a company to invest on-spec? What, imho, BAe should've done when they built the T-2s was slip an extra dozen in work, and offer the Royal Air Force a lend-lease type arrangement - I don't mean squillionaires could charter the back seat for a day trip to the Cote d'Azur, but perhaps BAe could have used some of these aircraft for sales tours, which, with over 1000 units built to date, would have undoubtedly (eventually) paid dividends.

The RAF did not want Hawk when it was offered in 2000-1 to supply new trainers and they took a lot of convincing that it was a completely updated aeroplane - the Australian Mk.127 was only at that point just being made ready for delivery. It was mainly intervention by the deputy PM (Prescott, to save the Brough factory) to persuade the RAF bought Hawk Mk.128 directly instead of making them part of the MFTS package. BAE Systems spent a lot of effort describing the aeroplane and its capabilities to all the officers who only saw a tarted-up T.1 (and would rather go on jollies to Italy rather than East Yorkshire?!!!).
There was certainly no money in the pot for extra airframes and 28 was sized for the future size of the air force. Only after this did the RAF use NFTC with Mk.115's (still 1990's technology) to fill the training gap. Since then, the front-line force has declined further so the 28 should be sufficient. Reading the Professional Pilots site, the hold-up is more at the OCU end of the pipeline.
With the end of the Hawk Line (and especially the end closure of Brough manufacturing) there is no chance of any more T2's for the RAF, anyhow the MoD is broke. The T.1 does provide a practical and cheap display jet, but its engineering relevance to UK PLC is certainly debatable.

[twinstar]

Why is there no chance of more Hawks? The last Hawk of the Qatari order only flew for the first time last month, presumably the jigs etc are being kept at Warton so re starting the line wont be an issue.

[stevejb]

It's not just a few airframe jigs, which are still there, but all the other components from engine and seats down to the smaller systems items, particularly the avionics many of which are no longer produced due to obsolescence. Look at the problems automotive manufacturers are having due to chip shortages for production of thousands a year then consider how a dozen Hawk orders every couple of years is going to get any real priority. Airbus are making 70 ish aircraft per month, Boeing are trying to get back to that level, suppliers will not fall over themselves for small batches of Hawk components.

[Condor68]

XX295 Showing west of Liverpool just now.Dont know if its on its own with the other trackers off??

[fiann21]

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[raameagle]

…because BAe announced a while back that production will cease once the Qatari Hawks are complete therefore lead in items for manufacture etc etc are no longer being procured plus, unfortunately it’s an outdated design nowadays in comparison to a lot of the similar airframes out there. Hawk production is done. The thing that saddens me as somebody who has being touring UK production lines (civil and military) since the late 80s is that the UK doesn’t really seem interested in building new aeroplanes anymore!
Regards
Mark

Why is there no chance of more Hawks? The last Hawk of the Qatari order only flew for the first time last month, presumably the jigs etc are being kept at Warton so re starting the line wont be an issue.

[fiann]

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[22A]

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[Enobob]

The Hawk project was funded by Hawker Siddeley Aviation as a private venture, in anticipation of possible RAF interest. How the world has moved on since then. Can you imagine the bean-counters running, umm, just about everything, allowing a company to invest on-spec? What, imho, BAe should've done when they built the T-2s was slip an extra dozen in work, and offer the Royal Air Force a lend-lease type arrangement - I don't mean squillionaires could charter the back seat for a day trip to the Cote d'Azur, but perhaps BAe could have used some of these aircraft for sales tours, which, with over 1000 units built to date, would have undoubtedly (eventually) paid dividends. Instead of which, top front-line pilots, male, female, b...k, w...e, any shade of either in between, are asked to vacate their sparkly new Typhoons and Lightnings for a 45 year old jet for relatively few displays each year. And live/work in Lincolnshire. Romantic etc relationships can and do happen all over the workplace, although I believe it is a no-go area in the forces (I'm sure other readers will know better) and for sure it would never have happened with the Blue Diamonds, Black Arrows, Yellow Jacks - you may draw your own conclusions as to why. This is a plane spotters site, we want more new noz!!

No it wasn't! The Hawk arose from a fully funded official Air Staff Target that came about when the decision was taken not to use the Jaguar as an advanced trainer but to use the entire buy for the front line. BAC and Hawker Siddeley responded to the AST and Hawker Siddeley won the competition.

[Nighthawke]

No Enobob you need to read up on the actual chain of events. The Hawk AST arose after Hawker Siddeley's proposal was put forward following their privately funded project.