Red Arrows New Base?

[Mike]

Wittering is a no-no because of the proximity of the A1 and resulting accidents during Red Arrows practise.

I'd forgotten about the issues of the A1 at Wittering but I now remember that this was discussed in the previous long-running thread over several pages about the same subject (which I can't find, but it's in the forum somewhere)!

[David Vincent]

The other thing to consider is the impact of Jeremy Corbyn becoming PM in a few weeks from now, I doubt the Reds will see out his premiership so re-basing would cease to be a problem.

[SPERX]

When they were at Scampton in the 1980s their restricted zone was 5nm radius up to 10,000' above airfield level. I cannot see any reason to suppose that their current requirements are any less. In the work-up phase they are flying 4 or 5 waves per working day. When they are flying nothing else moves in the restricted zone. That includes co-located aircraft. When they were at Cranwell the disruption to co-located units was immense, and that is before you factor in the impact on adjacent airfields. At Cranwell the zone would have had a major impact on the Cranwell Coningsby gap which low-level operators used to transit below the two MATZ stubs.

I suppose one could theoretically impose a planning regime which says that all based operators have to co-ordinate their movements with the Reds' practices, and vice versa, but all it needs is for an aircraft to delay due to an unforseen technical issue; an ATC clearance delay on international flights; or a short notice tasking - which I grant is unlikely to be often in the reconnaisance / intel world, and the whole shebang falls apart.

There were very good reasons for the Reds to have been based at Little Rissington, Kemble; Scampton; Cranwell was a mistake; and back to Scampton. Isolation. They are incompatible with shared use of an airfield. Even whilst at Cranwell they used R313 overhead Scampton and were still a problem to Cranwell's operations. Cranwell was a staff officer's abberation which is why they went back to Scampton. So what is needed is an airfield with hangarage; admin facilities;and a usable runway with ready access to a chunk of airspace 10 miles diameter and 10,000' high. AFter that until the RAF announce the new location, its anybody's guess.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Cottesmore was in use 12 months ago. viewtopic.php?f=62&t=154074
And in May this year if I remember correctly. There was a C17 at Wittering at night making low approaches over the A1 a few months ago.
The Grobs could stay at Wittering and operate using Barkston during the day in a similar fashion to the Chipmunks based at Linton using Dishforth, leaving Linton free for JPs during the day.

Will the economy be able to sustain such a luxury as the RAFAT?

Unfortunately your plan may have worked several decades ago, not so anymore. Part of the reason Wittering was reactivated was the (modern day) capacity limits of Cranwell and Barkston.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

So what is needed is an airfield with hangarage; admin facilities;and a usable runway with ready access to a chunk of airspace 10 miles diameter and 10,000' high. AFter that until the RAF announce the new location, its anybody's guess.

Basically...

SCAMPTON!

Unfortunately the RAF know this, but the beans counters do not.

[roughcutter]

I'd have thought Leeming as the ideal home for the Reds, plenty of hangar space/HAS's, it's a Hawk T.1 base so there's infrastructure/logistics. And now that Lintons gone there's shedloads of airspace out there?

[Vulcan74]

If Corybn gets in he promised to keep Scampton open, dream on!!!

[SPERX]

I'd have thought Leeming as the ideal home for the Reds, plenty of hangar space/HAS's, it's a Hawk T.1 base so there's infrastructure/logistics. And now that Lintons gone there's shedloads of airspace out there?

You may well be right but I can envisage issues with Teesside ( Durham Tees Valley) and Newcastle traffic being affected by the restricted zone, plus Leeming already has dramas with noise sensitive settlements like Bedale, so god knows what they would make of the Reds ...........

[reheat module]

I'd have thought Leeming as the ideal home for the Reds, plenty of hangar space/HAS's, it's a Hawk T.1 base so there's infrastructure/logistics. And now that Lintons gone there's shedloads of airspace out there?

See the point above re A1 roads, congestion, rubber necking and potential for accidents.

If Corybn gets in he promised to keep Scampton open, dream on!!!

That's the kiss of death on that then...

[roughcutter]

I'd have thought Leeming as the ideal home for the Reds, plenty of hangar space/HAS's, it's a Hawk T.1 base so there's infrastructure/logistics. And now that Lintons gone there's shedloads of airspace out there?

You may well be right but I can envisage issues with Teesside ( Durham Tees Valley) and Newcastle traffic being affected by the restricted zone, plus Leeming already has dramas with noise sensitive settlements like Bedale, so god knows what they would make of the Reds ...........

True enough, but they don't necessarily have to practise over the base, surely the team can transit to a designated training area?

[roughcutter]

Having said that, the Hawks are getting a bit long in the tooth. So I would be more concerned about replacing the aircraft (or in a worse case scenario, would the Hawks even be replaced or would the Reds be disbanded when Scampton closes . That would make the bean counters rejoice ).

[ColintheCaterpillar]

That would make the bean counters rejoice ).

Only very few of them. As often argued, the Reds are arguably very good value for money as both a flying advert for UK plc and a better recruitment tool than paying for some adverts to appear during BGT.

[mirage41]

That would make the bean counters rejoice ).

Only very few of them. As often argued, the Reds are arguably very good value for money as both a flying advert for UK plc and a better recruitment tool than paying for some adverts to appear during BGT.

Spot on Colin.

[CHINOOKER]

Wasn't Boscombe Down in the frame a few years ago?. The movements there are not exactly prolific and the "Reds"could be co-ordinated with base operations fairly easily I would assume!. Also Boscombe's location could afford them the relative airspace required for ops!

[ColintheCaterpillar]

Wasn't Boscombe Down in the frame a few years ago?. The movements there are not exactly prolific and the "Reds"could be co-ordinated with base operations fairly easily I would assume!. Also Boscombe's location could afford them the relative airspace required for ops!

Sadly I fear any Southern location is always going to be under a much bigger threat from civilian airspace expansion.

[Sparts99]

"Sadly I fear any Southern location is always going to be under a much bigger threat from civilian airspace expansion."

Macrahanish?

ha ha.

[pb643]

I think short term, Scampton will remain as the practice area - people have to remember that the "danger area" they practice in is a 5 mile radius up to 9,000 or 10,000ft. Yes, fire and emergency cover would be required, as would ATC, but importantly the airfield itself would not require upkeep to the same extent now; that's a cost saving until it is disposed of. Cottesmore could possiby also be an option.

So we're expecting the MoD to hang on to a piece of prime real estate - just to keep the airspce above it?

When Scampton is sold - the houses willup within days - and the airspace will be gone!

Arthur

I have been told that there is some doubt about its suitability for residential property, due to contamination over the years. How accurate that is, I have no idea. I can't imagine it could be widespread throughout the whole site?

[ColintheCaterpillar]

I think short term, Scampton will remain as the practice area - people have to remember that the "danger area" they practice in is a 5 mile radius up to 9,000 or 10,000ft. Yes, fire and emergency cover would be required, as would ATC, but importantly the airfield itself would not require upkeep to the same extent now; that's a cost saving until it is disposed of. Cottesmore could possiby also be an option.

So we're expecting the MoD to hang on to a piece of prime real estate - just to keep the airspce above it?

When Scampton is sold - the houses willup within days - and the airspace will be gone!

Arthur

I have been told that there is some doubt about its suitability for residential property, due to contamination over the years. How accurate that is, I have no idea. I can't imagine it could be widespread throughout the whole site?

I think the short term plan just avoids paying for the site’s upkeep. That’s a substantial saving without even marketing it.

[The Phantom]

The other thing to consider is the impact of Jeremy Corbyn becoming PM in a few weeks from now, I doubt the Reds will see out his premiership so re-basing would cease to be a problem.

Yes - a frightening thought!

[Pi]

Believe they only have enough spare Hawks to last to 2030