UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

[CHINOOKER]

With regard to the basing of any P8's,this totally depends on the size of any order,and what we also give up as a consequence. If the Sentinals go and the P8 order is in the region of 6 a/c,then Waddington would be suitable. If the order is for 12 airframes,or more,and all the hardware currently at Waddington remains,then a bespoke base would have to be found as it's not just a question of parking areas as such,but all that goes with it,training facilities/engineering/crew and family accommodation etc!. One possibility would be to base them at Scampton,as any required development here would not be too disruptive....also it is only a short distance from Waddington and currently underused outside of the Red's requirements.
With regard to basing them in Scotland,well I would assume that the Government would be keen on this as it's the most obvious place,given both that our nuclear deterrent and the possible threat area are in that part of the UK. Kinloss would be the obvious choice and the rescue centre could be re-activated as a facility. However in the current climate of the SNP holding a virtual stranglehold in Scotland,and seemingly demanding more and more concessions from "Call me Dave & co",as well as re-kindling the Independance mantra,then I would assume that as a pure matter of economics,you would not want to spend millions on infrastructure etc,and then have it all taken away from you at a later date,or have to have it used as a "bargaining chip",in any future negotiations,should the SNP achieve thier desired ambition!
Just my take on it!

[alpha_india]

I can't see the SNP objecting to an MPA capability being deployed north of the border no matter what happens politically to the Union - haven't they been critical of the lack of current capability?

The RAF been operating bases on non-UK territory since they started, and we've leased UK/dependency bases to a foreign power since the war (Mildenhall, Lakenheath, Diego Garcia). It will be London politicians compromising strategic capability to spite the Scots if they're churlish enough to use the current SNP dominance as the basis for compromising long-term capability investments. The contracts can be tied up now to ensure continued operating presence regardless of future independence decisions.



Incidentally, wouldn't Mildenhall make a suitable site for a dedicated London cargo terminal - thus relieving pressure on runway capacity at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted?

[Thunder]

Finally, upgrading anything in Scotland would be a waste of money. Recent events seem to suggest to me that the politicians there are hellbent on breaking up the Nation so why spent our limited funds were we are not wanted?

Just an opinion

One political party is hell bent on breaking from the Union, the country(Scotland) voted last year as weather or not to split from the UK, the majority of the electorate voted 'No' so we are still part of the Union. A lot of people voted SNP last week that voted against and are still against Independence thinking Scotland will have a louder voice within Westminster, why I don't know as all they have done is given the SNP a false sense of belief that we all now want Independence.

The SNP will always rotate around Independence it's what they're all about, if they accept the fact that the Scottish people as a majority don't want it and back away from the idea then they have no political cause. For the foreseeable future (I say at least 30 years) no Government will allow another referendum on the matter anyway,and if they keep pushing the matter instead of using the time and voice to better Scotland within the Union then all those that voted for them last week will leave them at the next GE,and as we are all still in a Union the money belongs to the UK and not just England as you imply.

[onemac]

You speak true words Scott - 'false hope' being the important one.

My input is that as a (united) nation we have bases all over the world which either include Soverign Property or are indeed 'Operational Land'. The US have a few bases in the UK and whilst primarily belonging to the host nation, long term leases of that land are current. I'm sure if Scotland did go independent it would not want to lose income from around 1,700 service personnel and well over 700 locals from their economy. Indeed my argument stands true for any part of the uk but if the Sun and other sources are to be even partly believed then the main threat is from the north and we can leave the rest of Europe to deal with infringements from other directions.

Bring back Ballykelly (and Kinloss), that's what I say!

Realms of fantasy indeed

Al

[Phoon]

Just recently I saw peeps measuring stuff on the pans next to the Tower at Kinloss. Couple that with the northern dispersals being maintained and some 'weeding' on the southern dispersals and I would say that Kinloss is fairly well in the running.

Don't really want them at Lossie unless at the end of the Tornado life and then they could go on Delta

Al

Bumped into an old friend in Tesco's last night Al. (ex Jag line here yonks ago) who's now a plumber with
a local firm. They've got work revamping the buildings on the ex NMSU buildings and North side and he said it's not
for the army and just smiled when I suggested P-8's.
As for Lossiemouth,fair comment but pure common sense points to this area for any Maritime aircraft.
Also a big plus is Angus Robertson under the tsunami of the SNP who'll help push it through.

Kinloss will not get reactivated. If and it's a big 'if' we do buy P-8s they will be based at Waddington, and I doubt we will get anymore than 6.

[POL]

Good to see a member of the procurement team on Fighter Control...

[Trenchard]

Good to see a member of the procurement team on Fighter Control...

[RubyRoo]

Incidentally, wouldn't Mildenhall make a suitable site for a dedicated London cargo terminal - thus relieving pressure on runway capacity at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted?

It's a nice idea, but the problem is that there still is lots of capacity at Gatwick and Stansted. Adding a runway anywhere other than Heathrow is pointless. No major airline wants to switch to Gatwick or Stansted. They want Heathrow.

You'd have to improve the transport links exponentially from Stansted to Central London and elsewhere to make it truly viable for a second or more runway.

Ideally, Luton would close. Stansted would get 3 more runways and turn itself into a major low cost and freight hub, Gatwick would get 1 more runway and focus on both business and low cost flights, whilst Heathrow would get 1 more runway and predominantly serve the business interests of the capital. City could also close.

Sorry, too much civil talk!

So P-8's. Someone said there'll probably be only 6 ordered and all bunged in Waddington. I suspect he might be right.

[onemac]

Can't be a member of the procurement team as they only consider the purchase. Must be a lincolnshire politician

Al

[ArabJazzie]

One political party is hell bent on breaking from the Union, the country(Scotland) voted last year as weather or not to split from the UK, the majority of the electorate voted 'No' so we are still part of the Union. A lot of people voted SNP last week that voted against and are still against Independence thinking Scotland will have a louder voice within Westminster, why I don't know as all they have done is given the SNP a false sense of belief that we all now want Independence.

The SNP will always rotate around Independence it's what they're all about, if they accept the fact that the Scottish people as a majority don't want it and back away from the idea then they have no political cause. For the foreseeable future (I say at least 30 years) no Government will allow another referendum on the matter anyway,and if they keep pushing the matter instead of using the time and voice to better Scotland within the Union then all those that voted for them last week will leave them at the next GE,and as we are all still in a Union the money belongs to the UK and not just England as you imply.

Hello Scott me old buddy! You are probably now thinking, here we go again!

As an SNP voter, you will probably expect me to disagree with what you write. The way some of the press are reporting things, and the way the other parties refused to let it lie before last week, you would be led to think that another referendum was coming next week. However, if you actually listen to Nicola, she, along with a large number of her colleagues, are smart cookies and understand that a good number of the 55% walked away from their past allegiances, but they are still against independence. I also get the feeling that given the indie result, that the SNP are shocked and amazed about the near lockout last week. Despite their position, i think they will use their heads, rather than follow their hearts as they will be fully aware that the tide can turn against you, just as it did for them last week.

And why, apart from the obvious, do you doubt that Scotland will have a louder voice in Wasteminster? Voting Tory has been a wasted vote here for a long time, Scottish Labour have been found out as an ineffective branch office, and the Lib Dems effectively killed themselves off when they jumped in bed with the Tories! So it is inevitable that a party that has Scotlands interest at the heart of its aims, will certainly use its new found status to make some noise, its just up to Wasteminster to listen now!

And back on subject, the SNP were the only party that i heard mention the fact that this island nation lacked an MPA capability, and im sure they will fight for that asset to be based in Scotland, maybe even Leuchars! Why else would it be kept as an active base?
Arabest,
Geoff.
Ps, Remember the Scottish Government still own Prestwick. Facilities already in place to handle 737-800 maintenance!

[Topol-M]

. I'm sure if Scotland did go independent it would not want to lose income from around 1,700 service personnel and well over 700 locals from their economy.

Al

Here Al, you're forgetting the SNP wants rid of Trident and the thousands of people employed to deal with it all

[onemac]

Fair point Tony but what the SNP spout forth and actually end up doing I find are two entirely different things. Case in point - SNP defence policiy written by Alex and Nicci stated forces out and bases closed. What actually happened was Alex was up here in a shot to (be seen to) lead the 'Save RAF Lossiemouth' campaign. Conflict of opinion? Naw - whatever gets votes at the time

Al

[welshandy]

How about basing (some of) them at Valley???

[Phoon]

Good to see a member of the procurement team on Fighter Control...

Just a touch of reality. Which sadly seems to be missing from many who simply dream on here. Chances are the RAF will have to loose additional fast jet squadrons to compensate as well.

[RubyRoo]

It may be worth transforming this thread into a generic SDSR 2015 thread.

The date penciled in for withdrawal of Tornado is 2019, but does anyone here really think they're going to last that long?

All areas within the MoD have seen cuts, but it's no lie in saying the RAF have bore the forefront of those.

2017 was due to see the deactivation of all the Tranche 1 Typhoons, but I'm not sure if that's still the case. If it is, that represents the loss of a substantial number of the fast jet fleet during this government's tenure.

Hopefully we'll get a clearer idea of how many F-35B's the government intends to order, but I think it's safe to assume it's going to be a long way off the 136 originally envisioned.

One thing's for sure, the service will be taking pain for short term gain.

[Chris IL-76]

P-8s to Lyneham please......just sayin

[Andy_99]

We do we need them - Gets coat & runs for the door.

On a more serious note once SSDR 2015 comes in we may have a better idea but then again most likely not.

It's been proved recently we're lacking in an MPA resource & having to ask allies help us out.

The Russians have just announced numerous defence programs being ramped up again, one would assume that Subs will be part of it.
We'll also need MPA assets down in the South Atlantic if the oil exploration finds anything worthwhile as the Argentinians will want a piece of the pie.

Don't think basing them all in one place is the way forwards either eggs/basket springs to mind & logic says not to base them at a current key base Waddo, Brize etc... as the risk of an incident closing the runway would instantly make them unavailable.

But of course that's all sensible thinking - when have the powers that be ever thought sensibly

We'll get P8's but only able to be refuelled by boom equipped tankers, Mildenhall's closing so Uncle Sam's 135 aren't so close at hand to support them, They'll stick them somewhere that's unsuitable for 24x7 ops due to noise constraints so we'll end up with a expensive white elephant.

[Vulcanone]

I think the current situation at Waddington proves they can work around a mere diversion, but lets hope they do stick some in a reactivated Kinloss and as Waddington has two types using CFM-56 it makes sense for them to have maintenance facilities there?

Oh and the ISTAR OEU and OCU, and the AWC is based at Waddington so I suspect they will have at least a couple there (still waiting for the order details mind)

Tim

[iainpeden]

I don't see how space at Waddington would be a problem given the number of Vulcans which used to be based there.

[ColintheCaterpillar]

I don't see how space at Waddington would be a problem given the number of Vulcans which used to be based there.

Amen. A lot of pan space if they tried.