UK Confirms 9 Boeing P-8's to be purchased

[Thunder]

Very salient point. I think finding middle ground accounting for the uncertain political scene and what is right for the UPs defence is a nightmare at the mo. The present Govn cannot risk placing more sensitive assets in Scotland at this time until it becomes law that the independence issue is buried in my humble opinion. Both leuchars and Lossie are great bases but the UK may not own them in the future and that makes both unlikely. They won't close Leuchars because it would add fuel to the SNP arguement that London doesn't care. I find the centre ground compelling with a range of boltholes in various locations. Hercs would certainly fill a short term gap but this one has been discussed for years but it's not a long term solution. I live near Brize and believe me there isn't much scope for anything else to be based there. Never say never but my understanding is 8 San looked to temporarily station there during Wadds resurfacing but this was declined.

You don't get anymore sensitive than the Nuclear deterrent in Trident which is firmly based in Scotland so why would the Government be taking a risk? The Scottish people had their say last year and the majority wanted to stay in the Union. In a recent poll North of the border, two of the questions asked were...
1/ Would you like to see a new referendum.
2/ Of those that voted Yes in 2014, how many would like to see a new referendum.

In both cases the result was an ecstatic 'No'

RAF Leuchars closed over 2 years ago with little fight from the SNP, that's how much they care when it comes to the military, . Lossiemouth in my opinion has never even been considered as a future base for MPA's. it was designed for FJ operations and it would take a vast amount of money to make it suitable for continued large a/c operations. My money(not that I have much) is on the reactivation of Kinloss, as I've said before everything is already in place and it offers the most cost effective solution.

Time will tell

[toom317]

[quote="IanH"] The present Govn cannot risk placing more sensitive assets in Scotland at this time until it becomes law that the independence issue is buried in my humble opinion.{quote]


How can you make it "law" that there cannot be a referendum?

[Drewparkes]

It is already law, it takes an act of Parliament to hold a referendum.

ATB,

Drew

[Contrail1958]

I'm just back from Lossie on this slightly chilly morning and the latest news (at the fence)
is the announcement of 12 P-8's to be based at Waddo with the provision of a Fob at Kinloss
for up to 4 jets. This all will be announced towards the end of next month.
No doubt the SNP will declare they had a hand in bringing the RAF back to help the local
community.

[venom]

Good a like that so 4 would be based at kin loss
Colin.
PS until I see one in RAF markings then I'll believe it

[MRTT]

So are the P-8s over here now RAF or am I lost in translation?

[Agent K]

So are the P-8s over here now RAF or am I lost in translation?

No the RAF doesn't have any P8's or maritime capability, hence this thread talking about possible procurement under SDSR.

[Thunder]

I'm just back from Lossie on this slightly chilly morning and the latest news (at the fence)
is the announcement of 12 P-8's to be based at Waddo with the provision of a Fob at Kinloss
for up to 4 jets. This all will be announced towards the end of next month.
No doubt the SNP will declare they had a hand in bringing the RAF back to help the local
community.

Just can't see that happening, what would the point be in reactivating a complete base just to operate a/c on a short term basis, you could easily operate in that capacity from Lossie or Prestwick. They'll be one base with a/c operating from other bases as and when required, exactly the same as Nimrod did.

[onemac]

So are the P-8s over here now RAF or am I lost in translation?

Agent K is correct - the UK does not have P-8's yet. There are however 3 x P-8's , a CP-140 and 1 x P-3 on Delta dispersal at Lossie at the moment.

G40A2226_MPAs_Delta by Al MacNeish, on Flickr

Al

[Thunder]

Impressive line up.

[TonyO]

Gonna to be a ****storm from industry if the UK goes down the P-8 route, no British weapons onboard, no British sonobuoys and no overland reconaissance capability. The big question is, do people really think that matters?

[onemac]

Gonna to be a ****storm from industry if the UK goes down the P-8 route, no British weapons onboard, no British sonobuoys and no overland reconaissance capability. The big question is, do people really think that matters?

As opposed to anything from 'British' Aerospace which isn't (apart from some jobs)? That's the problem these days, there's only a few countries big enough to build stuff the air forces of the world need and they insist in cramming them with all the gear produced in their own countries - and don't get me started on the software issue either So why can't we stuff an A400 full of the appropriate equipment or a Voyager for example? Nope! We just consider stuffing American produced Airframes with American produced palletised solutions..... or perhaps the ideal solution is a converted airliner? I don't think thats been thought of before?

Bet the government are kicking themselves for scrapping, and I mean breaking up so quickly in a knee-jerk reaction, the MRA4 now?

Al

[Thunder]

But the reason that MRA4 was ultimately scrapped was because BAe(the main contractor) couldn't give the Government an operating cost for the MRA4 over X amount of years. In reality BAe was holding a gun not only to the Government's head but those of the taxpayer as well, but that's British Industry for you.

The same thing from the same contractor has happened again regards the QE carriers. The facility/option was incorporated into the design from the outset to enable replacing the STOVL with Cat and Trap at minimal cost, but when it was decided to exercise the change BAe comes back with an astronomical price.

[JPXN458]

The Japanese produce a natty line in Maritime Patrol Aircraft....just saying like!!

PG

[MRTT]

So are the P-8s over here now RAF or am I lost in translation?

Agent K is correct - the UK does not have P-8's yet. There are however 3 x P-8's , a CP-140 and 1 x P-3 on Delta dispersal at Lossie at the moment.

G40A2226_MPAs_Delta by Al MacNeish, on Flickr

Al

Knew they were over here for JW 15-2 but didn't know if they were staying for good.

[MRTT]

So are the P-8s over here now RAF or am I lost in translation?

Agent K is correct - the UK does not have P-8's yet. There are however 3 x P-8's , a CP-140 and 1 x P-3 on Delta dispersal at Lossie at the moment.

G40A2226_MPAs_Delta by Al MacNeish, on Flickr

Al

Knew they were over here for JW 15-2 but didn't know if they were staying for good.

[Thunder]

It might be due to one of our Subs leaving port in the near future.

[TonyO]

Gonna to be a ****storm from industry if the UK goes down the P-8 route, no British weapons onboard, no British sonobuoys and no overland reconaissance capability. The big question is, do people really think that matters?

As opposed to anything from 'British' Aerospace which isn't (apart from some jobs)? That's the problem these days, there's only a few countries big enough to build stuff the air forces of the world need and they insist in cramming them with all the gear produced in their own countries - and don't get me started on the software issue either So why can't we stuff an A400 full of the appropriate equipment or a Voyager for example? Nope! We just consider stuffing American produced Airframes with American produced palletised solutions..... or perhaps the ideal solution is a converted airliner? I don't think thats been thought of before?

Bet the government are kicking themselves for scrapping, and I mean breaking up so quickly in a knee-jerk reaction, the MRA4 now?

Note that the one company that has not offered a platform for a potential MPA/MMA program is BAE Systems. I agree we should be thinking a little more widely, Lockheed Martin has one of the best solutions by using ex-RAF C-130Js as MPAs, but I am rather keen on the P-1 as well. Unfortunately it seems that the Japanese government hasn't approached any British industry to partner on it, which is a pity.

[page_verify]

For that kind of role, it was/is only ever going to be the P-8. For the "it's nothing to do with industry" answer, ask Edward Snowden why. No one muttered when the RC-135 replaced the Nimrod R1 overnight either.

[onemac]

No one muttered when the RC-135 replaced the Nimrod R1 overnight either.

Well that's not my recollection. There was major gum chumping on this very forum over the replacement of an old, but top of its class, aeroplane with an even older (and not so efficient) one. Mind you - a lot had to do with the crews.

Al