Red Arrows in Turmoil ?

[sgtangel]

From the outside looking in, this team feels different - the training seems to advance quicker - let's hope the 'toxic pockets' have been broken up and 2024 is a good scandal free season.

Fingers crossed. I don’t think there are any pilots left that were there when this sordid business started. Can’t say the say the same for any of the ground crew though, but you would like to think those that were involved have since been posted elsewhere

[F3]

Having watched last night's 'Untouchables' item on Sky News I don't know which shocked me more, certain pilot's predatory behaviour or the revelations that they were necking Prosecco in their hotel rooms @ 0300 hrs before a Display. What happened to the 12 hrs between bottle and throttle rule? There is no doubt in my mind that the unit has become unprofessional in more than one respect and the biggest indictment is surely the failure of the RAF Top Brass to do much more than sweep the scandal under the carpet. They have been complicit in the whole sordid business and in my view it's not just the sexual predators on the Team who need 'educating' but the entire Service. How can it possibly hope to attract female entrants when it condones this sort of behaviour? The bottom line is that, frankly it's just as bad as McDonalds. Also the culture cannot change until the right people with higher moral standards are put in charge who can implement a top down reform. In the end it all comes down to discipline and this unit has clearly lost it. It is Interesting to note that not a word of the scandal has appeared in RAF News which I think is proof positive of the cover up on the part of the service. I, for one, will not be going out of my way to watch the RAFAT again.

[Unknown74]

So much for Military Discipline then...

[Hunter49]

Time to ditch them , when squadrons had there own Display teams was far better , ROB

[raptor9]

I think 12 hours bottle to throttle was/ an unofficial civilian rule, certainly when I was puttering around the Sunday skies 50years ago. I recall a Lightning driver friend who took part in NATO beer meets saying he staggered to his aircraft the next morning, using full oxygen to clear his head from the terrible hangover on quite a few occasions. Not sure there is a strict time rule applying to the military. In the airline industry, you are considered drunk if you breathalyze to a third of what a car driver is allowed in this country.

[James Cutting]

Scary to think this is just what we know about in the Red Arrows...Dread to think about the rest of the Air Force and other Services.

[Fighterfoto]

It is Interesting to note that not a word of the scandal has appeared in RAF News which I think is proof positive of the cover up on the part of the service. I, for one, will not be going out of my way to watch the RAFAT again.

RAF News is not independent but produced by the RAF, so not publishing the story is more about not committing fratricide than being part of an alleged cover up.

[F3]

It's all part of the denial tho' Fighterfoto. The bottom line is that until the RAF officially recognizes that it has a problem which needs addressing it is never going to find a solution. Surely in a proactive organisation open discussion of that problem should be encouraged instead of hushing it up. What better forum for that than its own newspaper? It just appears counter productive when the subject is making headlines in the media for their own media to not even acknowledge it. There is no doubt that this is not going to go away so the sooner the RAF smells the coffee and addresses it the less harmful it will be. It's the RAF's own 'Partygate' and we all know how that ended!

[Condor68]

There is always the comment from an RAF Air correspondent a few years when some one was going on about their skills ,he said that that kind of flying woud be expected of all combat pilots.

[raptor9]

All pilots have skills, it is just that some pilots have better skills than others!.

[cat1]

Slowly losing interest and faith in the reds. At riat the Saudis did a great job with identical aircraft. While we didn't do much due to weather. Get shot of the lot and make it a 3 ship Typhoon display and just add two jets each year maybe?

[C24]

There is always the comment from an RAF Air correspondent a few years when some one was going on about their skills ,he said that that kind of flying woud be expected of all combat pilots.

…all frontline jet jockeys could do the same routine after training. If not, then they are poorly trained for the proper job.

The media hype of “Best of the Best/Cream of the crop” needs downplaying too. They are just blokes whose face fitted at the time and were given a cushy position.

That said/written, it is still worth spending the petrol money going to watch the practice sessions.

[raptor9]

I always understood that they were put forward for possible selection on the recommendation of their fellow pilots in whichever squadron each was in. The mediocre display is not the fault of the Red Arrows pilots but of the Safety Committee that vets each maneuver. Personally, I am not too keen on formation teams that fly dangerously close to each other. Been around too long and seen too many accidents to find very close formation work enjoyable to watch, whichever team it is, jets, warbirds etc.

[Snoop 95]

I wonder if putting a hand-picked chain of female Officers in charge of RAFAT would sort it out!

[Vulcanone]

As the retired Harrier pilot Gary Waterfall has pointed out over on Twitter. Someone over at Sky clearly has an axe to grind on this.... I can't see they are still doing this. But Sky clearly will not let sleeping dogs go.

Whatever happened, happened... I can't foresee its still continuing


Consider that my last mention of the topic

[POL]

Shock as journalist finds something long-lasting, far-reaching and newsworthy and runs with it until they get to the bottom of it. How unacceptable that they've chosen to pick on the poor, nice men of RAFAT who are obviously victims of some kind of Sky witch-hunt.

"Whatever happened, happened". Yep that's a great comfort to the victims, I'm sure.

[100arw]

"nice men of RAFAT who are obviously victims of some kind of Sky witch-hunt.

It was not Sky who were upset at the report, and therefore approached the women involved!

[NorvilleRogers]

As the retired Harrier pilot Gary Waterfall has pointed out over on Twitter. Someone over at Sky clearly has an axe to grind on this.... I can't see they are still doing this. But Sky clearly will not let sleeping dogs go.

Whatever happened, happened... I can't foresee its still continuing


Consider that my last mention of the topic

Time to take your head out of the sand and look at reality, Sky are doing their job.

[Parfitt]

Have any of these females been named

[Vulcanone]

As the retired Harrier pilot Gary Waterfall has pointed out over on Twitter. Someone over at Sky clearly has an axe to grind on this.... I can't see they are still doing this. But Sky clearly will not let sleeping dogs go.

Whatever happened, happened... I can't foresee its still continuing


Consider that my last mention of the topic

Time to take your head out of the sand and look at reality, Sky are doing their job.

OK one last bite, Norville and POL

As someone that has worked in Aviation publishing, (Aerospace and Key) written books for the latter, done research for them. I am not in the same vain as National Media, and god only knows how many former workmates like me know darn irritating some of them are on media trips, with dumb A@@@ questions. And the recent brain dead moron Piers Morgan ranting at Israeli about aircraft carrying messages for HAMAS. And oh yes then there was the News of The World phone hacking. (But the Media are so perfect you say....) Not to mention how many times all the folks on here moan when they get a story usually very wrong. I know both the current and previous BBC Defence correspondents Just like the former Defence correspondant at Sky Geoff Meade. (IIRC).

And knowing a fair number of RAF pilots, they don't speak highly of Sky either. Don't get me wrong I'm not for anything like anyone getting off scott free of this. And having been dumped in a less than pleasant housing situation post COVID, ( council run bedsit that turned out to be a bail hostel) I know what I would do to some criminals (Best close your eyes ears and look the other way) But I sure as hell don't have my head in the sand.

If you think I do well you know where you can put yours.