RAF plans huge cuts in planes and bases

[Sheff]

Michael Smith, the journalist who wrote the article, has posted on the thread

No prizes for guessing where the journalists get their stories from! This has been going-on for some time on Pprune and it's led to quite a few informed commentators restricting themselves when posting on the forum because their comments/views have a nasty habit of finding their way into the media by proxy. It's a shame, as Pprune is slowly becoming less of an informed source and more like UKAR every day, but I guess it's inevitable as enthusiasts have a natural ability to migrate from one site to another. The irony is that the journalistic desire to "spread information" is actually having the opposite effect and the people who do know what they're talking about are starting to keep quiet... and that's not just supposition - I've had people say this to me directly.

F-4 (Gary) makes an interesting point on the Pprune thread though - maybe letting the Red Arrows go might be the only effective way of getting the public's attention. Petitions are of course just an Alastair Campbell-esque spin doctor exercise to fool the electorate into thinking that the Government is actually interested in people's opinions. Real and effective public pressure can only come from the media, so in a sad and rather twisted way, losing the Reds might well be the final act which prompts the media (and therefore the public) to sit-up and realise what's happening. Of course the problem here is that the Red Arrows are good for a few more years yet and by the time that their hours are finally used-up, and the team inevitably gets the chop, it will be rather too late to do much about the broader issues of just how effective (or impotent) the remains of the RAF's fighting capability is by that stage.

The whole story is tragic but inevitable. There doesn't seem to be any way out of the mess no matter how one looks at the current situation and the likely short-term and long-term future.

[jeeper]

Remember the 1990s it was the Torys that closed Scampton, Finningly and others .Also they orderd the Chinooks that have been in store ever since.
I have voted Tory all my life but not this time .

[MacksAviation]

The defence budget will no doubt suffer cuts will be made.

I thinks its quite simple unless the forces of this country get the investment and commitment from which ever colour of government happens to be in power next time and in the future then this country can't continue to believe it is a world player on the military front and blindly follow the US into any conflict they seem fit to stir up. We will not have the resources to defend our own lands with the planned level of investment and continue to be involved in places like Afghanistan.

Defend this country, the Falklands and Cyprus (we all need at least one sunshine posting for R+R ) and pull everyone else back to this country and fight the enemy from within and on our own soil (if in fact there is a real enemy ! ). NATO is 28/29 members strong if there is a need to intervene outside of Europe then it should be under that Flag with equal commitments from all members, otherwise defend Europe under that flag and not get involved.

If our old friends from behind the Old Iron Curtain are in fact beginning to wake up and re-arm then we need to look closer to home and those borders. How many cold war bases have gone and how many of the planned/proposed closures will actually just disappear under the developers bulldozers very quickly? I see this country having a couple of 'super bases' and that leads you to think of 'all eggs one basket'.

I know of one RAF squadron that could only manage to have 2 serviceable airframes in a day recently, not due to the RAF techs not pulling their weight, but due to the wonderful outsourced servicing arrangements now in place, Outsourcing has caused so many problems across all three services, what on paper looked cheap works out way more expensive (if it looks to good to be true it usually is ! ) in my day if something was broke you stayed until it was fixed and if you were lucky the Flt Sgt gave you an early knock off on Friday or put a few quid extra behind the bar. Once again sadly those days have gone and the military ain't run by the military anymore but suits and penpushers. (no offence meant to the member with that name on here )

There are so many complex issues raised by these possible proposals and I think I have become a little confused and frustrated in what I have now written, I know what I want to say but not sure its come across very well so I will shut up now.

Dave

[garethbrum]

I spoke to my MP when I lived in West London on the subject of defence and he (Conservative MP) assured me the military was safe.

I'll go and put my mark on the no.10 site now.

They'll say anything pre-election!

[mrlongbow]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... rmany.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The latest news in the ongoing saga! It`s not RAF i grant you but what do we think?

I think bringing home the soldiers,as long as we find bases, is a good idea. Time for other NATO partners to step up for sure.

[RichC]

A vast amount of soldiers are being pulled out already so i'm not sure why the Tories think this is a new idea.
Tidworth started building new barracks two years ago for the home coming of some Tank regiments and other garrisons elsewhere have been building new barracks for other regiments returning to the UK.

[Sean Mac]

Are Goverment is S**t.

[gonk]

Its easy for the politicians to discuss defence cuts , NONE of them have any respect for our services,just look at remembrance day, brown would not bow at the cenotaph and the service at Westminster was just a P R stunt to them, the only people who are defending there actions are there lackeys,i am sick to death of these muppets, viva the revolution



http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politi ... ortunities

[PR9]

Doesn't it actually cost more to close a base than keep it running?

Once they're gone, they're gone for good, unless another major war centralised in Europe kicks off. Then the "I told you so" will be never ending.

[Pen Pusher]

I have today received the following communique from Alan Duncan MP - Member for Oakham & Rutland (Cons)

"...I have received guarantees in the past from ministers about the base, and it's continued use in the years ahead..."

He continues...

"...It's Harriers are crucial to our defence capability, and as the local MP I will continue to do all I can to ensure their continued operation in Rutland..."

So that's something positive I guess!!

Guarantees in the past count for nothing.

There is an election coming up and your local MP (in fact any MP) will say exactly what you want to hear so you'll vote him in.

Brian

[JG71]

My MP's have been fine and have answered and acted on queries in the past for and i have the letter to proove it.I think you are wrong that they are all the same they are not in my book.Some are good but are brought down by the majority of MP's.That is all i am going to say before a get into the great British debate on politics which always follows football.And i'd rather talk about Chelsea's fine 4 nil hammering of a certain team.

Jim.

[RichC]

For a start they don't need Wittering if they have Cottesmore. They could just use Wittering for training or satellite field ops as they with Yeovilton and Merryfield or Culdrose and Predannack.
They don't need a squadron based at Wittering. This should save a lot of money.

Heres my proposal:-
1. Close Scampton.
Reason a:- Red Arrows can be relocated elsewhere and use a disused airfield close by for training or out to sea like they do in Akrotiri.
Reason b:- Relocate the CRC back to its original location at Neatishead in Norfolk... it's probably cheaper yet again as its a smaller site.

2. Close Wittering.
Reason a:- 20(R) Sqn can be relocated to Cottesmore with training being conducted at Wittering without a problem. They do not need infrastructure to conduct this, just a small fire cover unit (Like at other satellite airfields).

3. Close Benson.
Reason a:- 33 Sqn can move to Odiham and if the rumour of the Merlins going to the CHFto replace the Seaking HC4 is true, the Merlins and relocate to Yeovilton.

4. Close Wattisham.
Reason a:- The Apaches can go to a smaller airfield. Wallop is unavailable but my proposal would be this:-
Netheravon and Upavon are both void of aircraft (apart from the Skydiving planes and Gliders)... 7 Regiment moved out of Netheravon this year.
Netheravon and Upavon both being grass airfields have extensive hangarage and it wouldn't cost much at all to create a paved area for the landing/take off. They both already have ramp areas and Wattisham Apaches use Netheravon frequently when deployed.
Both are located on the largest military training area in the UK complete with tank targets, battlegroups, most of the Armour Garrisons and close to the SHF of which they escort also.

5. Close Dishforth
Reason a:- Move the Lynx to a smaller airfield or co-locate them with other units up north or down south. There are not many of them left anyway.

6. Close Kinloss.
Reason a:- The Nimrods are going to Waddington anyway and it would be more wise to centralise the MARPAT fleet considering half of their operations are conducted in the southwest anyway!
Reason b:- Whatever else is at Kinloss (Ground wise) can be shoved into Lossiemouth and Kinloss can be used as a satellite/divert if needed.

There, lots of money saved without affecting or scrapping any front line aircraft early....
This Government have a very BAD habit of slashing airframes before we get any replacement even near ready....

[LMP]

Right you lot! You are all getting too serious! It's friday and time to lighten up! If you want to know the real effect of spending cuts - look what I've got to stooge around in from now on....



Its a bit small, and if it rains or gets too hot..we're all doomed!

Play nicely!

[viper3111]

Personalized as well, classy

[Dunk]

Chav'd up...nice!

[RichC]

Sorry, was distracted by your legs again LMP... (Sorry Mr Figgis)

I'm sulking as i'm not allowed out tonight

LMP on a serious note (not for long, i'll try to be less serious).... we will have to resort to those soon. Good job we have a few airframes in museums....

[TonyO]

Heres my proposal:-
1. Close Scampton.
Reason a:- Red Arrows can be relocated elsewhere and use a disused airfield close by for training or out to sea like they do in Akrotiri.
Reason b:- Relocate the CRC back to its original location at Neatishead in Norfolk... it's probably cheaper yet again as its a smaller site.

How about just getting rid of the Red Arrows, or at least threaten to - let the public know just how dire the situation is...

[LMP]

Chav'd up...nice!

What, the thread or the Halibag? lol!!

[Sheff]

Razor, I Think you'll find that most of the suggestions you make will happen sooner or later. Alan Duncan MP is a pratt! Just because he makes silly noises about doing all he can and how he "wants" something based at Cottesmore, counts for nothing. Since when has the MoD and Treasury given a stuff what some random MP thinks?

Scampton will close, it's already pretty-much certain. The idea of keeping the air space after the Reds move to Waddington sounds encouraging but you can guess how the situation will change if the airfield is sold off. Besides, the Reds can't be around for more than a few more years as their Hawks will be out of hours. In fact the new facilities at Waddington for them look like typical MoD wastage - spend on new facilities and then there's no team to use 'em!

Kinloss will probably close. The idea was sound enough the first time round but Scottish politics evidently saved it, but now that the idea has been proposed again you get the feeling it will happen this time. It doesn't make any sense to have a handful of Nimrod at Kinloss when they could be merged with the assets at Waddington.

Cottesmore is bound to close when the Harriers go, be that next year or 5-6 years in the future. Likewise when Cottesmore goes, Wittering goes - you have to regard them as a mutual factor.

Linton looks like the next victim as there seems to be a growing appetite for shifting their training to Valley. At one time it would have sounded crazy but now that training activities have reduced, it doesn't seem like such a wild idea. Besides, they just spent money on the base so that's a fair indication that it will close!

Leeming looks doomed too now that there are mutterings about shifting 100 sqn to Valley.

Odiham and Benson are still at risk too especially now there's this notion of shifting helicopter assets to Culdrose.

Lyneham is already earmarked for closure.

Marham is unknown - everything depends on whether the F-35 is ever delivered but judging by the latest politicial saga, it still doesn't seem impossible that the F-35 will be abandoned. If it is, then it would seem likely that the remaining Tornado Gr4's would consolidate at Lossiemouth in which case Marham is abandoned.

I think it's pretty clear that in a few years from now the main surviving RAF bases will be Coningsby, Waddington, Cranwell, Brize, Lossie, Leuchars, Northolt, Shawbury, Valley and maybe Odiham and Marham too. Think it fair to say that every other base is likely to go.

[HighlandSniper]

With the utmost respect to those who have already posted, may I suggest that we cease the pointless speculation as no matter how good our contacts are we just don't know what is going to happen.

As an aside, why not move the ISTAR assets from Waddington to Kinloss - after all, Kinloss has much of the MRA4 infrastructure in place along with other MPA-related facilities. Basing the ISTAR assets at Kinloss makes at least as much sense as basing the MRA4s at Waddo.