B-17 Down at Dallas airshow

[Andy Marden]

Indeed, extremely sad.
But some of the previous arguments about aircraft "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" are simply not valid.
They were operating in a VFR environment (ie see and avoid).
That pretty much sums up the cause...

[raptor9]

Vulture. All aircraft are flimsy. Weight equals loss of performance, stronger in those days meant heavier. I don't really think anyone is being disrespectful on here, the video evidence says it all, as Andy Marden says, VFR existed, and aircraft on your right have right of way. If you put your aircraft in a 45 degree bank to the left in something like the P.63, then your view to the right is non existent. Human nature being what it is, mistakes can still happen despite the good briefings etc., SA when you are amongst other aircraft is vital to everyone's survival, just as it is on our everyday roads. Apart from the possibility of a medical problem, I don't think there is any other conclusive cause. As regards 'minimum crew' for Air Displays, this certainly applies in this country [following the Nimrod loss in Toronto Bay}, but not sure whether that applies in the States or not.

[Sparts99]

Quite right, people died and respect for their passing should be all that is required here. The speculation argument always comes up but IMHO is unwarranted af the moment especially casting blame. Dignity please.

Agree

...." As regards 'minimum crew' for Air Displays, this certainly applies in this country [following the Nimrod loss in Toronto Bay},...."
As I understand it military aircraft aren't subject to the CAA rule here, I don't know what the military rules are. The CAA rules came about when the Invader crashed at Biggin Hill in 1980 with passengers aboard who were along for the ride.

[Gary]

Names of the 6 people killed have been released https://commemorativeairforce.org/news/ ... rV5VZ4CDs0

[raptor9]

And yet, on a professional site, there are six pages of speculation etc., It is healthy to discuss the 'whys and wherefores'. Obviously any sane person will be very sad at the loss of any aviator, and thoughts for families etc. are part of the whole disaster. I don't feel it is disrespectful to discuss this.

[Nighthawke]

It is if blame is being placed on one of the deceased , that can possibly be read by family members!

[Sparts99]

"And yet, on a professional site, there are six pages of speculation etc." There you have it, a professional site. You haven't named it but from those words I assume it's not an enthusiasts site who's members are, with respect, for the most part not really qualified to comment on these matters. In my comment above I mention the Invader crash at Biggin Hill, do a web search on that and see the discussion by pilots, operators, and medical experts. All of them acknowledge that no speculation should be made before the official investigation has reported.

[raptor9]

In three years time, when/if the report comes out, the accident will have been long forgotten, and, being in America, there have been many, many media reports of the accident, experts giving their opinions etc. So, much as I like this site, I doubt very much whether any speculation on here will have any effect on the family and relatives. My thoughts are with them. Over the years and years of attending Airshows, I have had the misfortune to have seen 11 crashes and 9 lives lost. Not the most pleasant aspect of my long life. I am, however in my 81st year, very much my own man, and don't feel that posting speculation, NOT accusation does any harm to anyone. The information and speculation is instant in the media these days. Cause and effect, in my opinion, is relevant for a discussion on this site. My last word on this tragic and unhappy event. Regards, John.

[Tally-ho]

I am with raptor9 and his sentiments on this issue.

Digital media is instantaneous and often in real time. You can find sites reporting on anything, yes anything, if you know where to search for it. Speculation, guess work, gossip, tittle tattle - the list is very long - is part of life in these times.

If you are adult enough, if you are older than 25, you have experienced something of life. Life in itself is a dangerous business! So if you can't handle Airshow accidents, and the resultant sadness that goes with it, then perhaps this site and many / most other aviation sites is not for you. Find yourself a fairytale or similar malarkey style site and move on.

Off topic - war in the Ukraine, recession and hardship in the UK, and internationally, are realities. Stiffen the backbone, man up, show some resilience - no time for crybabies!

[mustang5861]

A report on US media yestereday (Sunday) cited the NTSB as saying a provisional report into the accident will be published in four weeks. Interesting how the US TV news networks have covered it: some give a warning as to the nature of the incident and the footage 'you are about to see', then freeze-frame the footage just before the impact; others give no warning and show the full horror through to the resulting fireball on the ground. A couple of very experienced and professional news presenters here were visibly upset at the nature of the footage.

[moonstone_laura]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... in-dallas/

[Gary]

NTSB preliminary report https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/ ... 106276/pdf