RAF QRA Question

[TS010]

Which article does one go with! The audio tapes of the conversations that took place between the air defence hierarchy. or one of the QRA pilots. Ramming any potential jet would be more decisive than staffing with canon fire - instant perhaps. Later footage shows F15s circling over Washington.

The Lady Pilot wasn't on a QRA sortie, just a normal training one. If the background footage they showed was correct she was flying an F16 allocated to the District of Columbia ANG out of Andrews AFB.

I think the QRA jets that were first on the scene over NY were Mass ANG F-15's from Otis ANGB. The first jet is now preserved somewhere. I've also read that there were some F-16's out of somewhere in the mid-west (Illinois/Ohio?) which were also unarmed and tasked to go after United 93, which eventually crashed in Pennsylvania before any military assets could intervene.

The same program also showed F-16's escorting AF-1 as it flew from Miami (Homestead?) to Barksdale AFB. The images weren't clear enough (on my 12 inch black and white 405 line valve set) to tell which unit they were from - But if I had to guess I'd take a stab at FL ANG out of Jacksonville.

Quite correct that she was heading out on a normal 2 ship sortie but mentions that they were told to just go as it would take 20 minutes to arm the aircraft. The footage shows F-16's over the Pentagon and on the wing of a KC-135, clearly showing their DC tail codes. We may never know for certain exactly what aircraft were sent where.

[Malcolm]

There is actually quite a good account on Wikipedia here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._mili ... 11_attacks

The only quibble is that it states 3 jets were launched by the 1stFW from Langley. That's incorrect. The QRA at Langley is stood by ANG pilots, and at that time was manned by the 119thFW North Dakota ANG. There are 4 Q sheds at Langley, and the 119th launched 3 F-16's. The 1stFW operated F-15's at that time.

What I hadn't realised was that the ATC commetary in the program regarding the Pentagon attack was actually from a Minnesota C-130 which was asked to 'take a look' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_O%27Brien_(pilot)

The Mid-west F-16's were from 180thFW Toledo Ohio, and one of them was 89-2114. They only had inert bullets on board when they first launched. https://www.eads.ang.af.mil/News/Articl ... er-89-114/

I haven't found out where the AF-1 escorts came from on the Florida-Barksdale sector. Barksdale to Offut was Texas ANG out of Ellington.

[Thunder]

The first fighters on scene with AF1 that day were a pair of F-16’s from the 147th FW, Texas ANG from Ellington Field callsign “Cowry45”.

After taking off from Sarasota it was believed that AF1 was going to be heading back to Andrews AFB, however due to several unidentified aircraft(threats), in the vicinity of AF1, the pilot decided to hold a left and headed out over the Gulf of Mexico into already clean airspace due to the various air ranges in the area. It was only then that it was decided to head to Barksdale. It was now a situation where two sets of a/c closing in on one another were going to rendezvous quicker than alert jets having to play catch up from Florida.

That question remains unanswered into why alert jets from Homestead or Tyndall weren’t launched sooner, as both would’ve been on station over Sarasota before AF1 even got airborne.

[adderman]

[quote=
I think the QRA jets that were first on the scene over NY were Mass ANG F-15's from Otis ANGB. The first jet is now preserved somewhere.
=quote]

Hi All.

77-0102/MA. Is at Santa Rosa CA Pacific Coast Air Museum.

See https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7478131#

Regards
Mike.

[Condor68]

TS010 there was a statement ar the time because they never thought anybody would attack uncle sam that some aircraft were told ram them.Probably tring or test flights
ie anything in the air
iw

[Malcolm]

TS010 there was a statement ar the time because they never thought anybody would attack uncle sam that some aircraft were told ram them.Probably tring or test flights
ie anything in the air
iw

There was a failure because the NORAD mission was to protect against air threats coming in from outside the USA. NORAD had a total of just 14 QRA jets available to it at 7 different bases Otis, Langley, Homestead, Tyndall, Ellington, March and Portland OR. These were to cover the whole of the continental USA. Otis QRA launched two MA ANG F-15s which established CAP over NYC - arriving a few minutes after the second WTC tower was hit. Langley QRA launched 3 ND ANG F-16's, (only two of which were armed), which setup CAP over Washington DC shortly after the Pentagon was hit.

Once NORAD had these 5 jets in the air, that was it. Nothing else in the whole NE USA was armed and ready to go. And even if they had been, Only units assigned to 1st Air Force are under the direct control of NORAD, so pilots from other ANG units would have struggled to accept any orders direct from NORAD.

Many of the (non NORAD) ANG bases had seen what was happening on CNN, and had unilateraly taken the decision to start the process of fuelling and arming aircraft "just in case". And sure enough NORAD/NEADS did start phoning bases asking what they could offer. Some bases launched unarmed fighters ASAP in order to get something - anything - in the air. Some bases didn't even have air to air missiles stored on site (because they had no interceptor role) so had to go with just cannon shells. The first 'properly armed' F-16's to get off from Andrews were nearly 2 hours after the WTC was hit. Two hours from seeing something on TV to launching an armed jet is good going - but by then everything that was going to happen had happened (although they didn't know that at the time).

[Canberra TT.18]

[quote=
I think the QRA jets that were first on the scene over NY were Mass ANG F-15's from Otis ANGB. The first jet is now preserved somewhere.
=quote]

Hi All.

77-0102/MA. Is at Santa Rosa CA Pacific Coast Air Museum.

See https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7478131#

Regards
Mike.

77-0100/MA the other one here:
https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/j ... picture-52

[Canberra TT.18]

I think the role of QRA changed dramatically after 9/11 before 9/11 this was always against (military) aggression from the outside (see NORAD Story). Since 9/11 every aircraft not responding is a potential threat.
But shooting an (aggressive) military aircraft or a civil aircraft which (for some reason) is not responding is a total different story.

[page_verify]

I've seen a few interviews and speeches by Colonel Tillman, who was the AC of AF1 on 9/11. An incredible chap who had to determine for himself that he needed to immediately flip from being a 'routine mobility pilot' to a defensive warrior when the threats to AF1 starting coming in. It can't have been a light decision to place armed guards at the entrance to AF1's cockpit mid-flight even with Bush onboard, nor contemplating that they may need to stay airborne for a couple of days. I remember speaking to a logistics officer from Barksdale a couple of years later who said AF1 emptied the flight kitchen of everything you could eat or drink, enough for 100 people for 72 hours I think he mentioned.

Perhaps the most interesting, and QRA-related, flight observation I remember though is Tillman's decision to get AF1 up close to FL500. His rationale was that only threats to AF1 would also have been up that high.

[POL]

You can't get a 747-200 that high.

[page_verify]

You can't get a 747-200 that high.

"Up close to FL500" i.e. mid-40s.....