unidentified

[graham luxton]

The MoD declassified working papers are quite interesting. Of note is the two western covert aircraft types (text and images) that have been edited out in the section covering 'Black' and other Aircraft as Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. The B-2, F-117 and F-22 are all openly discussed in the documents. The papers were produced by the Defence Intelligence Staff (DIS) in 2000 and were originally classified "SECRET UK eyes only"

These two undisclosed western types were obviously known by the MoD to be operating in UK airspace. Is one of the edited out types the aircraft that Chris Gibson saw in 1989?

Thanks for all that TJ - made interesting reading.
I think the undisclosed types above were the U-2 and RC-135!

When I saw Chris describe what he'd seen I immediately thought this was a routine air refueling of three F-111's with one in the fully swept wing configuration. This, I suggest,comes very close to the wing shape of the HP115 you mentioned particularly when it would have been viewed from a distance of approximately three miles below the a/r areas used by fighters.

The concept of two F-111's flying in formation with a KC-135 and a "classified" aircraft type is something I find very hard to believe. What makes it even more unbelieveable is that this happened in daylight! Considering the lengths that the DoD goes to in order to conceal Black Projects is it likely that two F-111 crews would have had clearance to even to see such an aircraft let alone fly in formation with it? I think not.
Also, forty years of experience of working in various Air Traffic Control units tells me this event would be highly unlikely. During that time I've flown many times on KC-135's including missions over the North Sea refueling F-111's. During these trips I've asked F-111 pilots if they would fully sweep the wings for photography. Only a few agreed to do this,the rest turning down the request due to weight considerations.As this was not part of the a/r procedure pilots that agreed to this descended to a lower level and dropped further behind the tanker for safety reasons and this is what I think Chris saw.

Graham.

[T_J]

Thanks for all that TJ - made interesting reading.
I think the undisclosed types above were the U-2 and RC-135!

When I saw Chris describe what he'd seen I immediately thought this was a routine air refueling of three F-111's with one in the fully swept wing configuration. This, I suggest,comes very close to the wing shape of the HP115 you mentioned particularly when it would have been viewed from a distance of approximately three miles below the a/r areas used by fighters.

The concept of two F-111's flying in formation with a KC-135 and a "classified" aircraft type is something I find very hard to believe. What makes it even more unbelieveable is that this happened in daylight! Considering the lengths that the DoD goes to in order to conceal Black Projects is it likely that two F-111 crews would have had clearance to even to see such an aircraft let alone fly in formation with it? I think not.
Also, forty years of experience of working in various Air Traffic Control units tells me this event would be highly unlikely. During that time I've flown many times on KC-135's including missions over the North Sea refueling F-111's. During these trips I've asked F-111 pilots if they would fully sweep the wings for photography. Only a few agreed to do this,the rest turning down the request due to weight considerations.As this was not part of the a/r procedure pilots that agreed to this descended to a lower level and dropped further behind the tanker for safety reasons and this is what I think Chris saw.

Graham.

Hi Graham,

No problem. Thanks for the reply. Interesting analysis. I can see where you are coming from in regards to the two types censored from the DIS report. In hindsight it does make sense. The MOD and UK Government have never been forthcoming on the the U-2/TR-1 deployments/basing over the years. I suppose if they are that anal about it despite US declassification then they could extend it to the RC-135? Obviously by 2000 when the report was compiled the SR-71 had been retired for a few years.

I can agree with the U-2, but IMHO feel that the RC-135 is stretching things a bit. The description of the the Figures 1 to 9 states that certain aspects of these vehicles may be described as 'saucer like'. The U-2 obviously with the pods on the spine, but not the RC-135 with its obvious similarity to 707/717, KC-135 etc.

I find it hard to believe that Chris would make such a basic aircraft recognition error. Chris does say that he considered the F-111 with fully swept wings, but dismissed it. To Chris it just didn't sit right. Here was an aircraft recognition expert presented with a sitter, but he couldn't identify it.

Was the classified aircraft suffering some sort of technical difficulty? Possibly requiring fuel and directed to the tanker? It wouldn't be the first time that Aircrew outside a programme have witnessed covert aircraft and have had to be de-briefed. F-15 pilots are on record as having witnessed F-117/Have Blue under testing and have had to be de-briefed. The same went for an RAF exchange pilot on F-105s having to be debriefed after diverting and witnessing the then undisclosed Blackbird (A-11/12 variant).

It could very well be exactly as you have described. Who knows what will be declassified in years to come?

I've always had my doubts about the Boscombe Down incident back in 1994. It makes a great story, but is it just a mix-up of events, mis-identification and a jumble of theories all in error?

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/black_pr ... scombe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TJ

[RichC]

I wrote that Boscombe article many moons ago (must be atleast 10-11 years ago now) purely opening up some investigations done by the original guys who released it in AFM. Ren Hoek and Marco Van De Veld (can't remember their names now without looking myself at it). Infact i haven't read it now for about 5 years.

It's no errors on my part, it's just going over more extensively their investigation on the report of the incident. I purely added pictures of the said aircraft involved and added more text including some reports from anonymous witnesses. Basically opening up certain 'avenues' and letting you make your mind up on what went on going by what was stated in the article and what was supposed to have happened that night. It's not that i believe it happened. As i really don't know.
Again, lack of photographic evidence, lack of...pretty much everything needed for a decent investigation and its all hearsay to be honest.

You'll notice that throughout the report i state at various times i am dubious and rather unimpressed by the investigation done beforehand in the various stuff they found. Some of it just doesn't add up and some does.
What was funny though is after i published that article on my original website, it mysteriously went offline and couldn't get back on it to do anything. (The whole site... gone overnight). Hence why Dreamlandresort hosted it (and all my other articles on there) instead.

Am glad to be out of the loop now and wish not to go down that avenue again... its a shame the articles are still up on the site though, would rather them go away and can do without people saying i made the story up when i was just reporting on the Dutch investigation which published theirs in AFM Magazine previously.

[T_J]

Hi Rich,

I had no idea that you had compiled that report. The 1994 incident does the rounds every now and again on various forums.

The last time the Boscombe 94 incident was discussed on PPRuNe it produced some interesting posts.

Post #60

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcon ... ect-3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post #74

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcon ... ect-4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post #81

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcon ... ect-5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TJ

[RichC]

Yes i saw it posted but i take no notice nowadays. As i said, would rather it taken down but i haven't been in contact with Joerg Arnu of DLR for a long time.
Lots of articles on the website which are mine including the Area51 photo report with descriptions of everything which is in the photos (most detailed photos taken from Freedom Ridge in the 90's by Chuck Clark). Had the help from someone who had official maps of the place. Even went out there myself to have a look around (outside the fence).

No longer into that aspect of the hobby, lost interest a while ago. So i tend to ignore everything which is said!

[RichC]

I haven't lost faith, i've just lost interest. If i was to go back over again i expect my interest would highten but i doubt i will.

[boff180]

Has anybody else seen the infamous weather satellite photo, which was confirmed as genuine.

It shows a perfect unbroken high altitude contrail eminating in Nevada and going across the Atlantic, over europe and into Russia.

Due to the state of degredation of the contrail and its length it was calculated the aircraft was travelling at Mach 7+

Also, remember the F-117 visited Binbrook

Andy

[22A]

"Look East" tonight went back 30 years to the Rendlesham Forest incidient. A USAF airman confirmed in writing he had been called out to a suspected crash, but when he got to the site, he saw a black triangular shapr take off vertically with no noise to about 250' and then it disappeared.
Hmm; black triangular shape & no noise. Perhaps the UFO crew were planning a UK reunion? I also read today that towards the end of WW2 a RAF aircraft had a close encounter with a UFO, but Churchill suppressed the news to avoid mass panic.

[GOOSE]

Also, remember the F-117 visited Binbrook

Andy

Would love to hear that full story one day...................

[Rainbow 6]

Hi Chaps

Don't think the F117 visited Binbrook, there were reports, and even a couple of chaps that claimed to have seen them, but they had left there camera's at home that day so they didnt get pictures, however when they described them they talked about the shape that had been reported up to then which was reported as an F-19, which was nothing like the shape it turned out to be when the USAF finally said they had them 1987, and photo was released in flight. The USAF also said they had never left US air space.

I think the Aurora project was the B-2 when it was in the black world, remember reading this somewhere, many moons ago

Of far more interest is the crash of some thing at Boscombe in September 1994 and the arrival of a C-5C, and the reports of what that was. There are reports that it was an airframe that look a lot like the YF-23, there are reports of it being stored in a hangar at the base and recovered by the C-5C which is operated by plant 42 at palmdale, and is used for out sized cargo's. The roads around the base were closed and reports suggest that 2 or 3 A109's landing at the base. The MOD explained it away with a towed decoy getting stuck on a tornado, but why would a C-5C land at Boscombe?

This would be a great hobby to investigate during those cold lonely winters night, perhaps we could sort out who shot Kennedy next?

Have fun
Rainbow

[RichC]

Of far more interest is the crash of some thing at Boscombe in September 1994 and the arrival of a C-5C, and the reports of what that was. There are reports that it was an airframe that look a lot like the YF-23, there are reports of it being stored in a hangar at the base and recovered by the C-5C which is operated by plant 42 at palmdale, and is used for out sized cargo's. The roads around the base were closed and reports suggest that 2 or 3 A109's landing at the base. The MOD explained it away with a towed decoy getting stuck on a tornado, but why would a C-5C land at Boscombe?

Don't i know it, sadly

[RichC]

Please don't post it anymore, i can't bare looking at it... i wrote it years ago... aaargh.

We'll be seeing Black UAV's flying through the Wescott corridor next or over Mildenhall

[Rainbow 6]

Thats the story

That was from memory, thanks for the link....

Rainbow

[johnhowe]

Taken from Notams: there will be a launch/release of 20 Sky Lanterns from within 2 nautical miles of 5024N & 00412W bet 19.15pm & 19.45pm Saturday 7th, July, 2010 SFC to 3000 feet at Ernsettle, Plymouth. I wonder how
long after the event, will it take for people to report unidentified flying objects, at least we will know, what they
might be.