Syrian/Iraq air war and conflict

[Thunder]

Well i have just to a look at that picture above and it looks like the russians were in turkish airspace for under 2.4 miles assuming the pink track is the russian plane?

Here's copy of the letter sent to the UN from Turkey




Russia posed no threat to Turkey, so why on Earth they thought they needed to shoot down the a/c is beyond me. Now we've Obama blaming it on the Russians, take a back seat man instead of escalating it. NATO needs to take a step back here and let the Governments of Turkey and Russia sort this out.

[Nighthawke]

Inclined to agree with you Thunder. If this isn't handled sensitively (and sensibly) it could be a catalyst for something far worse. I know NATO is/was meant to be a "everyone support everyone else" setup but maybe this is, as you say, time to step back from a potential brink. Putin is "threatening consequences" but not specifying what - yet. He is angry - quite rightly so regardless of where the fault lies. Let's face it if someone hits you provoked or not you'd probably be fairly p****d off. Better to walk away think about it after cooling down and then take action - if needed.

[Richard B]

Putin is sending fighter escorts with future missions in that area, so Turkey will be foolish to send fighters up again.
those big Su 34s will have no quibbles now if anything is detected coming at them.

[EGDR]

Turkey would be well within their right to launch fighters again if the Russian aircraft stray into Turkish airspace regardless of whether the Russian aircraft are escorted by fighters or not, although it might be foolish to attempt to engage them without good reason.

[das]

The incursion lasted 17 seconds,hardly justification to shoot it down.More importantly it turns out that Turkey has been funding ISIS by buying the stolen oil from them !

[welshandy]

Putin is sending fighter escorts with future missions in that area, so Turkey will be foolish to send fighters up again.
those big Su 34s will have no quibbles now if anything is detected coming at them.

Been reported that Russian Navy is to have a Cruiser in the Med to deal with any air threat. So doesn't appear to be any stepping back & cooling off.

[page_verify]

S-400 deployment to the region too.

[Sparts99]

Apparently the Rusian pilot is alive and well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34917485

[rva65]

The rebel group known as the Syrian Turkmen Army has told the Reuters news agency that its forces shot the two Russian pilots dead as they descended by parachute....which I think is a war crime under the Geneva Convention of 1949.

Article 42: 1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

(However, airborne forces - paratroops - are a legitimate target in the law of war under any circumstances)

What regard would the Syrian Rebels have for the Geneva Convention? if they have even heard of it! The actions of a trigger happy Turkey has resulted in the cold blooded murder of a defenceless crewman hanging on a parachute, I hope this sad turn of events does not destroy the possibilities of Russia working in co-ordination with the coalition already in place destroying ISIS!

[T_J]

S-400 deployment to the region too.

Noticed that too.

Russia is deploying S-400 Triumf (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) next generation surface-to-air missile systems to the Hmeymim airbase in Syria where the Russian Aerospace Forces group is stationed, according to Russian Defense Minister Gen. Sergei Shoigu.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin agrees with the Defense Ministry's proposal to deploy S-400 missile defense systems to the Syrian airbase.
“By the decision of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief S-400s will be deployed to Hmeymim airbase in Syria to provide comprehensive air defense,” Shoigu said.

http://sputniknews.com/military/2015112 ... yment.html

[Thunderbird167]

I hope this sad turn of events does not destroy the possibilities of Russia working in co-ordination with the coalition already in place destroying ISIS!

Sadly I suspect that the destruction of ISIS is not the primary purpose of the Russian intervention

The area that the aircraft was shot down is not a stronghold of ISIS

The shooting of the pilot is not a good action. However the rebels clearly see the Russians in the same light as the Syrian forces and so have acted accordingly.

I doubt that any side is playing by the rules of the Geneva Convention

[Thunder]

Remember that Turkey have a long history of aggression and not playing by the rule book....

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... XML+V0//EN
http://www.ekathimerini.com/160583/arti ... -this-year
http://www.ekathimerini.com/199572/arti ... -air-space
http://neoskosmos.com/news/en/Greece-to ... croachment
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/07 ... ace-again/
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/violat ... ince-2008/


Sadly it could be the case that Turkey have now blown any chance of the coalitions working together. It took 130 people to be killed in Paris for the various Governments to come to their senses, then Turkey wreak all that with their trigger happy attitude, lies and double standards. Good one Turkey

[22A]

Comments from people at work today about the clear photos in the papers and lengthy film on TV. It almost suggests the news agencies were tipped off about where & when to start filming.
Or did one lucky camera crew get a scoop?

[Thunder]

Today mobile phones and ipads can capture high quality video, so in reality anyone could've taken the footage then passed it onto the various news agencies, and from what I gather the Russians have been bombing that area quite often so people would've been aware of the likelihood of more sorties in the vicinity.

[Harkins]

One thing just occurred to me when I read about the Russians sending a cruiser armed with the S-300 air defence missile system, is that it's presumably part of their Black Sea fleet and thus may well have to squeeze through Istanbul to reach the Med. I guess that may be a factor in keeping the Russian response in check as they wouldn't want to loose the only way out of there.

[nickowen]

There is an audio recording doing the rounds of a Turkish fighter controller reading Standard Warning Two. We may, I hope, assume that he has already read Standard Warning One, but where are the recordings of Standard Warnings Three and Four? And did the F-16 pilot issue any warning before engaging?

Also, nobody seems yet to have picked up the fact that the Red Air radar track appears to indicate that the Su-24 was engaged after its second incursion.

[Blackcat1]

I don't think I trust any of them!

[Sparts99]

A lot could now depend on what Putin decides regarding the info/intel he has been given, if he feels he has been set up, that could result in him looking to seek some kind of retaliation against Turkey, if not directly then perhaps a clandestine op inside Turkey using his special forces.

C.

I doubt he'll do something as extreme as that. There's a lot of public opinion against Turkey's reaction to the overflight, if he responds in any way militarily against Turkey he'll lose that support, and he'll risk an escalation that will drag NATO into direct action in a further response. That public opinion will keep NATO restrained, if he uses force against Turkey the gloves will probably come off and he knows that, and I suspect he doesn't actually want an all out conflict. He's using econimc sanctions of a sort now, I'd expect a lot of rhetoric, and more sanctions, and maybe provocative military activity but no actual shooting. Hopefully the politicians will use their common sense and keep a cool head, and thankfully Trump isn't in the Whitehouse.

[rva65]

A lot could now depend on what Putin decides regarding the info/intel he has been given, if he feels he has been set up, that could result in him looking to seek some kind of retaliation against Turkey, if not directly then perhaps a clandestine op inside Turkey using his special forces.

C.

To what end exactly? If Russia has been bombing that particular area on numerous occasions then Turkey would have known already that Russian bombers are flying near their border, an infringement you could say was inevitable, Turkey it seems to me was itching for a Downing without a thought as to the fate of any crew!

[Harkins]

So the rhetoric and actions are stepping up.

The Turkish were looking to calm things down according to this BBC article Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet

But since that, the Turkish PM has maybe turned things up again after; Turkey Warns Russia Not To 'Play With Fire'

And the latest Russian action is to release footage of their S-400 Missile system arriving in Syria yesterday.