Strategic Defence Review - 2025

[jd4781]

Front pages of tomorrow's Guardian and Telegraph reporting that the PM will announce at the NATO summit tomorrow the purchase of 12 F-35As.
https://x.com/jacksurfleet/status/19376 ... 7YsnQ&s=19
https://x.com/jacksurfleet/status/19376 ... hlIsQ&s=19

[RubyRoo]

Confirmed by the Beeb.

UK to purchase nuclear-carrying fighter jets https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c335406gxdvo

I’m not in favour of this. Only 12? I realise it has some commonality with the B but I think it’s insane to introduce another type in such a small number.

I always expected it would be the case come the release of the Defence Command Paper, but surely this is now also confirmation that the Voyagers are getting booms.

[Harkins]

I guess 12 just about constitutes a squadrons worth. Just read on BBC that they’ll be based at RAF Marham, which you’d expect. I wonder which squadron might be reactivated to operate them.

Haven’t seen mention of a date anywhere yet. In service about 2036 is my guess.And will this likely mean at least 12 less B models? I very much expect so. But then again, were we really going to get any more Bs anyway?

[F4JPhantomII]

Will operating both the A and B mean it’s likely the F-35 will finally receive a proper British designation e.g. Lightning FGR.1?

[Finty]

Just seen the news, surprised it’s only 12 ordered but that’s better than nothing!!

[jd4781]

Yes it looks like 12 less F-35B.
"The new fast jets will be based at RAF Marham, with the Government expected to procure 138 F35s over the lifetime of the programme. The procurement of 12 F-35A rather than 12 F-35B as part of the next procurement package will deliver a saving of up to 25% per aircraft for the taxpayer."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-t ... e-dividend

[RubyRoo]

I guess 12 just about constitutes a squadrons worth. Just read on BBC that they’ll be based at RAF Marham, which you’d expect. I wonder which squadron might be reactivated to operate them.

Haven’t seen mention of a date anywhere yet. In service about 2036 is my guess.And will this likely mean at least 12 less B models? I very much expect so. But then again, were we really going to get any more Bs anyway?

Confirmed “at least 12” new F-35As.

These will be at the expense of and not in addition to the next tranche of F-35B orders.

Tranche 2 of F-35B was meant to be 27 aircraft to take us up to 74. It will now definitely be 12 A and likely 15 B.

Official government source: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-t ... e-dividend

“The new fast jets will be based at RAF Marham, with the Government expected to procure 138 F35s over the lifetime of the programme. The procurement of 12 F-35A rather than 12 F-35B as part of the next procurement package will deliver a saving of up to 25% per aircraft for the taxpayer.”

[Finty]

Just seen the news, surprised it’s only 12 ordered but that’s better than nothing!!

My enthusiasm may have been misplaced upon reading the above posts (regarding these being vice, not in addition to 35Bs) and not to mention the small matter of having no RAF tankers with probe and drogue!

[Harkins]

Also interesting that 12 35As are said to cost 25% less than Bs. Given we’re supposed to be increasing defence spending, you might have imagined we could have therefore either bought more of these or lessened the loss of the Bs. Nah.

And as the A can carry more of and a wider selection of weapons (aside from the nuclear bomb), will we maybe spend the savings on providing them some of these weapons? Or for just 12 aircraft, is that too few to justify procurement and training for a new weapon?

I certainly expect that the cost of converting any Voyagers will be prohibitive again as we’ll have so few and presumably allies have been providing the ability for the 135s for years already.

[Crusty]

They should carry dual national markings

[NorvilleRogers]

Just seen the news, surprised it’s only 12 ordered but that’s better than nothing!!

My enthusiasm may have been misplaced upon reading the above posts (regarding these being vice, not in addition to 35Bs) and not to mention the small matter of having no RAF tankers with probe and drogue!

All the RAF tankers are probe and drogue already aren’t they? Thought they were lacking the boom system?

[Alf]

Also interesting that 12 35As are said to cost 25% less than Bs. Given we’re supposed to be increasing defence spending, you might have imagined we could have therefore either bought more of these or lessened the loss of the Bs. Nah.

And as the A can carry more of and a wider selection of weapons (aside from the nuclear bomb), will we maybe spend the savings on providing them some of these weapons? Or for just 12 aircraft, is that too few to justify procurement and training for a new weapon?

I certainly expect that the cost of converting any Voyagers will be prohibitive again as we’ll have so few and presumably allies have been providing the ability for the 135s for years already.

It could be just an initial order for 12 with further orders to follow.

[Sw]

The USN version F35C has the UK in-flight refueling system a bit more expensive and heavier. But would be cheaper than leaseing new tankers

[TommyC]

I read the 12 F35A purchase as our changed integrated and supportive nuclear weapons stance within NATO which PM Starmer has been setting the dialogue for since he became Prime Minister. It seems very sensible to align ourselves with the other NATO nuclear F35A squadrons rather than opt for F35B, Typhoon, FCAS delay to UK deterrent capability.
From a tanking perspective perhaps we will see our Voyagers have booms installed, but from a short term increased NATO readiness perspective there are plenty of other nations tankers ready to go. Obviously that doesn’t help for long range UK sovereign operations.

[TonyO]

The USN version F35C has the UK in-flight refueling system a bit more expensive and heavier. But would be cheaper than leaseing new tankers

The F-35C is not cleared to drop B61-12, as the Navy no longer has a air-launched nuclear mission.

On the tanker boom issue, Lockheed Martin allegedly offer a F-35A with a probe, but from what I understand its never been produced, if we chose it we would end up with a different bespoke variant that could cost more thanks to its different plumbing etc.

[Malcolm]

I read the 12 F35A purchase as our changed integrated and supportive nuclear weapons stance within NATO which PM Starmer has been setting the dialogue for since he became Prime Minister. It seems very sensible to align ourselves with the other NATO nuclear F35A squadrons rather than opt for F35B, Typhoon, FCAS delay to UK deterrent capability.

But what does our participating in the Nuclear Sharing agreement actually add to NATO? There are already 5 nations doing this (Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Italy, US) and Poland is expected to become the 6th soon. It has no effect on the " UK deterrent capability" because the UK is not in control of the nukes - the US is. We will not be able to use them for sovereign defense.

The F-35A is undoubtedley a great asset, but it's the weapons it carries/drops that really matter. We can't even get Meteor and Brimstone integrated in a timely fashion, and this risks tying us into US only supplied weapons programs to the detriment of companies like MBDA.

[TonyO]

RAF have confirmed that the F-35As will equip the OCU, 207 Sqn, the DCA role will be part-time.

Day-to-day, the F-35As will be used in a training role on 207 Squadron, the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU). As the F-35A carries more fuel than the F-35B variant, it can stay airborne for longer, extending the available training time in each sortie for student pilots. As F-35As also require fewer maintenance hours, there will be increased aircraft availability on the OCU. These factors combined will improve pilot training and reduce the amount of time for pilots to reach the front-line squadrons.

[Pat Murphy]

RAF have confirmed that the F-35As will equip the OCU, 207 Sqn, the DCA role will be part-time.

Day-to-day, the F-35As will be used in a training role on 207 Squadron, the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU). As the F-35A carries more fuel than the F-35B variant, it can stay airborne for longer, extending the available training time in each sortie for student pilots. As F-35As also require fewer maintenance hours, there will be increased aircraft availability on the OCU. These factors combined will improve pilot training and reduce the amount of time for pilots to reach the front-line squadrons.

A cost saving of 25%, increased training time airborne with better range, fewer maintenance hours, shorter training time (apart from then converting to the B variant
Makes you wonder why we bothered with the B in the first place.....
Oh wait...The Royal Navy

[RunAndBreak]

Got a problem with the navy???

lol.

[TonyO]

Got a problem with the navy???

lol.

The carriers are pretty pointless, one is currently sat in Singapore acting as a bar.