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UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

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Finty
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UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Finty » Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:22 pm

Not exactly breaking news at 20 days old, but worth a read...

Updated Dec. 5 at 8:04 am ET with comment from the UK MoD

BELFAST — In a rare joint appearance before lawmakers, top United Kingdom defense industry officials this week disclosed troubling issues affecting some of the Royal Air Force’s most expensive aircraft programs.

At the Defence Committee hearing Tuesday, a top Lockheed Martin executive, for instance, suggested the British government was purposefully delaying delivery of 47 F-35B aircraft, though it wasn’t immediately clear why. Separately, supplier issues have forced Boeing to delay E-7 Wedgetail Mk1 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft deliveries from 2023 to 2024. That means the RAF faces a three-year fixed wing airborne early warning capability gap.

The Airbus A400M Atlas transport aircraft also suffered from a number of technical problems in 2022, which Airbus UK director of military affairs Sir Kevin Leeson referred to as a “regrettable collection of discoveries.” Those problems have been overcome, the company said, but on the same day a government watchdog revealed the MoD had ditched a plan to purchase extra A400Ms because it couldn’t afford them.

Taken together, the problems of the three aircraft acquisitions show how the RAF continues to struggle with generating new frontline capabilities in a timely manner and against a backdrop of menacing Russian and Chinese threats. Should issues with the E-7 in particular fester, the public will grow to wonder how well the British air force would be able to see an attack coming.

On combat air matters, the decision to slow the pace of F-35 deliveries was revealed by Paul Livingston, chief executive of Lockheed Martin UK.

“Just to be clear it’s not our deliveries that are slipping, it’s when the MoD are choosing to take their options in those [current] production lots,” he said. “That has been a change.”

Livingston offered no explanation about why the MoD made the decision, but “affordability” has since been clarified as the cause.

“We remain committed to procuring 138 F-35 aircraft” said a UK MoD spokesperson. “Tranche 1 remains on track to deliver 48 F35Bs by 2025, where an adjustment to deliveries was made in 2020. This was due to affordability when set against investment in other capability priorities across the equipment programme.”
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Breaking Defense understands that the second tranche F-35B order of 27 additional aircraft is expected to be completed in 2033. Should those deliveries first start in 2026, after tranche 1 deliveries end in 2025, an average delivery rate of less than four aircraft a year would follow.
RELATED: Economic troubles could put UK in firing line for more defense takeovers

Those financial pressures have for some time led to analysts questioning if an original commitment to procure 138 of the fifth generation fighters will be honored. In his testimony, Livingston referred to the first batch of 48 fighters to be delivered.

“At the moment the UK has taken the decision to take its near-term purchases and spread them out further. That is part of the 48 already on contract, so those delivery dates have gone. We were expecting eight, eight and nine [UK aircraft] in the next three [production] lots, but it is nowhere near that,” he said.

A spokesperson for Lockheed Martin confirmed in a Dec. 1 statement to Breaking Defense that a total of 30 F-35B aircraft have so far been delivered to the UK with a further seven due for delivery in 2023. The remaining 11 will follow in 2024 and 2025, according to the spokesperson. The spokesperson did not share a specific delivery schedule for 2024 and 2025, but a breakdown of six and five aircraft per year would fit with Livingston’s assertion that the rate of delivery is being slowed down.

“As those lots get negotiated with less fees per lot, that may alter the price of the [F-35]B,” Livingston said of a second tranche UK order. “I can’t say to what extent it will alter the price because it will depend on volume and [orders from] other [F-35]B customers.”

Livingston also revealed that the MoD and Lockheed Martin UK have already made a “handshake agreement” on the follow on F-35 order, with the two parties specifically discussing production lots 15, 16 and 17 so far.

Despite the fact that London has faced severe financial problems with its F-35 procurement because of increases in US foreign exchange rates and rising costs for weapons integration, Livingston said that the recurring flyaway unit cost for the B variant had gone down by 51 percent since the start of the program and now stands at 39 percent less than the first UK delivery in 2012.

“The program cost is reducing not spiraling” he said.
Rest here:
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/uk- ... -programs/
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Thunder
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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Thunder » Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:18 am

Where are the 30 F-35’s that have been delivered already, I can’t recall that many being at Marham. How many are at Edwards(3?)Beaufort(??), anywhere else ?

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Gary » Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:33 am

27 have been delivered to Marham including the one that went for a swim

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Alf » Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:15 am

30 delivered so far, 27 at Marham and 3 at Edwards

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Doughnut » Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:03 am

Could this be a reaction to the reported lack of qualified F-35 pilots ?
Is F-35B pilot training still carried out at USMC Beaufort, SC ? If so surprised a small number of RAF jets are not stationed there.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by tommc » Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:09 am

Doughnut wrote:
Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:03 am
Could this be a reaction to the reported lack of qualified F-35 pilots ?
Is F-35B pilot training still carried out at USMC Beaufort, SC ? If so surprised a small number of RAF jets are not stationed there.
207 Sqn at Marham are responsible for RAF/FAA F-35B conversion and training.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Fighterfoto » Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:10 pm

The somewhat glacial delivery schedule is not connected to the availability of pilots.
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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Doughnut » Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:58 pm

Thankyou for comments. Good to know.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by SKW100 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:06 pm

Definitely worth the read, thank you.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Ravendriver2008 » Mon May 08, 2023 9:01 am

Now it appears evn though we cut orders for three Wedgetail still gotta pay for five

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-forc ... ail-order/

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by reaper493 » Mon May 08, 2023 10:03 am

I read that as having to pay for 5 radars, not 5 full aircraft?

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Supra » Mon May 08, 2023 10:58 am

Five Radar sets for 3 E7 Aircraft is indeed the deal! Whilst they state that avoids buying a 'Radar Spares' package in the short-term, I'm sure that going forward with potentially just one available a/c for tasking (from 3) isn't a sustainable situation in these increasingly tense times. The knowledge gained from advanced notice of a potential incursion allied to full control of our pared-back interceptor resources is increasingly essential in this potentially global threat. We need at least 5 air-frames for this role. Take a recent reference point regarding the potential loss of the one & only RAF WC-135 available for tasking by 'accidental' shoot-down. Even if that did/didn't invoke a war, the UK capability would've been nullified by the loss of one aircraft & crew? Not a tenable case IMO?

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by seven » Mon May 08, 2023 12:20 pm

Supra wrote:
Mon May 08, 2023 10:58 am
Take a recent reference point regarding the potential loss of the one & only RAF WC-135 available for tasking by 'accidental' shoot-down.
The RAF don't have any WC-135's. ;)
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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Supra » Tue May 09, 2023 11:08 pm

Good Point! Maybe it was an RC-135 Rivet Joint thingy then? :O :halo:

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Vulcanone » Wed May 10, 2023 11:39 am

Both of the RC-135s were available for taskings last year when that missile incident took place. Despite the third still being away in Texas undergoing the same kit upgrade all the RC-135s have been through.

Granted the 2nd jet is away in the USA right now, but we only had 3 Nimrods mostly from 1974 to 2011 (leaving aside the one that went swimming...)

They had the same number of Comets, and that is not going into the incident at Watton with the RAF Police and the hangar fire that consumed 1

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Black Mike » Wed May 10, 2023 9:30 pm

By comparison consider the rate at which LN has taken F35s in quite a short time frame and it is clear that it's not a production issue rather delaying tactics.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by jamesg23 » Thu May 11, 2023 9:46 am

Black Mike wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 9:30 pm
By comparison consider the rate at which LN has taken F35s in quite a short time frame and it is clear that it's not a production issue rather delaying tactics.
is it not the fact that the more f35s you order the more up the production list you go? the USAF buying 100s means they would be priority over us that have signed up to 50 ish.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Agent K » Thu May 11, 2023 9:51 am

jamesg23 wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 9:46 am
is it not the fact that the more f35s you order the more up the production list you go? the USAF buying 100s means they would be priority over us that have signed up to 50 ish.
One would assume that when the contracts are negotiated and agreed, delivery slots will be part of that. I think it's more a matter of timing, than volume procured, if you get your money in first and the contract negotiated first then you will get the pick of delivery slots.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by jonnewell » Thu May 11, 2023 4:36 pm

When push comes to shove, whenever you get a right wing Tory government you will ALWAYS get a reduction in military spending.

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Re: UK industry officials raise eyebrows over Royal Air Force F-35, E-7 and A400M programs

Post by Mervt » Mon May 15, 2023 8:10 am

jonnewell wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 4:36 pm
When push comes to shove, whenever you get a right wing Tory government you will ALWAYS get a reduction in military spending.

If you have a labour Gov’t, They would more than likely cancel the rest of the order Catch 22.

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