Red Arrows in Turmoil ?

[cat1]

The Red Arrows 2022 has been & continues to be one enormous shambles from not quite picking the elite team, through adultery, attitude, morale, reduction of team aircraft, inability to supply just 7 aging serviceable jets, to the Nation's embarrassment that the 'Worlds's Premier Aerobatic Team' (allegedly) cannot string a reduced complete 7 jet display together on any given day! Yes, the Rhyl bird-strike wasn't their fault, but the end result was another incomplete display.
I am going to suggest that unless 15 (2 Teams of 7 + a spare) Red smoking Hawk T1's are not currently available to fly out, that the 2022 Middle East Tour is cancelled out of respect for the death of HM Elizabeth II.
Perfect reason to sit back & take-stock of their current (possibly temporary) hiatus & assess what purpose flying less of a more failing knackered old no-longer in-production jets overseas for a laughable 5-week Tour really achieves? If the Reds are a Flagship for the UK, then we're sunk.

What I was trying to say, properly worded!

[Vulcanone]

As opposed to the French, Italian or Canadian display teams flying the currently in production......


Hasn't stopped them carrying on now has it....

[cat1]

I bet all their aircraft are flying..

[herc15]

As opposed to the French, Italian or Canadian display teams flying the currently in production......


Hasn't stopped them carrying on now has it....

Exactly, the point is it's a military fast jet, the majority of the general public wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a trainer and a front line fighter let alone whether it's the T.1 or T.2.

I'm not the Reds biggest fan, far prefer some of the other european displays however they do represent Britain in a unique way. It's clear to everyone that the team is not in a good place currently however it's also pretty clear steps have and are being made to improve things. I can't see the RAF drawing more limelight onto themselves they already have with the diversity hoo hah by closing down the nations much beloved display team.

With the current budget and training constraints the RAF aren't going to be buy more T.2 for the Reds nor can they spare enough airframes from the training pipeline.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaVUFPAAQQQ An interesting perspective, worth a watch. In fact would recommend the channel in general.

[slogen51]

It really saddens me as I was hoping people would say they (RAFAT) are going through a tough time but with a bit of resolve and determination the Reds would bounce back. In the past they have suffered horrible crashes and morale sapping losses but always managed to bounce back.

They were untouchable, a great British institution that could do no wrong but in these modern days everything is in the public spot light and the slightest slip or indiscretion is plastered all over the web.

I thought the seven ship were good at Fairford. Let's look forward to a new season and a fresh start.

PS nine is better than seven, there must be some spare hawks somewhere!

[Pune]

It really saddens me as I was hoping people would say they (RAFAT) are going through a tough time but with a bit of resolve and determination the Reds would bounce back. In the past they have suffered horrible crashes and morale sapping losses but always managed to bounce back.

They were untouchable, a great British institution that could do no wrong but in these modern days everything is in the public spot light and the slightest slip or indiscretion is plastered all over the web.

I thought the seven ship were good at Fairford. Let's look forward to a new season and a fresh start.

PS nine is better than seven, there must be some spare hawks somewhere!

I'm sure they will survive, if the will is there they are sure to.

[Vulcanone]

I bet all their aircraft are flying..

Pass, I haven't bothered with an airshow this side of the pond since.... Nor do I take note on how many Alpha Jets, MB.339s or CL41s are ferreted away for their teams.

Anyway new training season starting soon....

[C24]

Here’s to a new beginning at RAF Waddington in October 2022. The formation shown above just needs a few practice sessions.

[Nighthawke]

...and an extra aircraft if that is a display formation!

[Supra]

Probably just wishful thinking that the Reds could ever, ever fly 10 jets at once, just like the Frecce regularly do aaaaand land 5 together! (runway width & wind speed/direction permitting )

[C24]

C III might wish to have a diamond 9 over the Palace after his visit to Westminster Abbey. He will have some say in the matter.

[Nighthawke]

My point was that you put 10 Union Flags in your post.

[C24]

That would be Red10 flying with the photographer.

The tablet/website would not allow the desired layout , so I just left ten aircraft in the sky at once as seen many times over RAF Scampton.

[Richard B]

Reds i feel have been slipping for over the last decade or more,
We do not have the numbers of the best of the best like we used to have,
Most applications came from single seat fast jet pilots.
F3 Tornado
Jaguar
Harrier,
Hawk training or operations fleets.
We have a small fleet of Typhoon pilots to pull from,
The RAF is not what it was and feel it cannot maintain the standards it once carried.

[Enobob]

Richard B,

Nonsense. Insulting post in the extreme.

[Nighthawke]

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Richard B. F3 was two seat.

[Harv94]

Does it have to be a trainer airframe? Just thinking of the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels...

[cat1]

Does it have to be a trainer airframe? Just thinking of the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels...

i wouldn't think so, the reds pilots have ample experience to fly other aircraft.
i don't think we have the means to take typhoons like the US F-16s or F-18s.
maybe the solution is hang on until the older typhoons can be used?
the blue angles and thunder birds both use 6 jets for displays and have more spares (the blue angles have 11), how many make up the total red arrow fleet?

[herc15]

According to Scramble database there are 15 airframes (XX177, XX188, XX202, XX219, XX232, XX242, XX245, XX278, XX295, XX310, XX311, XX319, XX322, XX323, XX325) not sure how many of these are fully converted smoking jets.

Typhoons aren't feasible due to having hugely increased cost per flying hour over a Hawk T.1.Typhoon 70K per hour verses 10K per hour for the Hawk (this was 2010 so likely gone up since).

With the retirement of the rest of the T.1 fleet I should imagine this would increase the pool of spares as they RTP the aircraft at Shawbury so don't see why they can't continue with the T.1 till 2030 as planned. If they can put up 9 jets I see no good reason to replace them with another type with the huge cost that would entail.

Long term allegedly the RAF is looking at 12 of the concept that Aeralis is developing for use by the Reds but anyone's guess as to whether that will happen.

[POL]

If they can put up 9 jets I see no good reason to replace them with another type with the huge cost that would entail.

They've failed to put up 7 jets for most of this season!